From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Noob dumb question (extending emacs) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2021 21:42:59 +0100 Message-ID: <87bl35exik.fsf@web.de> References: <86k0i6uoxd.fsf@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> <871r4ernmt.fsf@zoho.eu> <87o87hnrpt.fsf@zoho.eu> <87y26kkuag.fsf@web.de> <87zgr0t3vw.fsf@web.de> <87o87fy4t3.fsf@zoho.eu> <87ilxmsuqq.fsf@web.de> <87k0hxj37u.fsf@zoho.eu> <878rydbcm4.fsf@web.de> <8735okj2bx.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17405"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 31 21:43:50 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mhHgE-0004MK-J2 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2021 21:43:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40108 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mhHgD-0006cI-7s for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2021 16:43:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57776) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mhHfX-0006Zz-MH for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2021 16:43:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]:47679) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mhHfV-0004fq-T3 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2021 16:43:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1635712981; bh=+OhqqkZQR3TuBWCPFcbBP0wcYitKoCi83a1V6qX2CxY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=nkISA7BLOvE4Wy/eZTe295t8jzG9a/tFO+2dqlkRYQWdkNs5gcVG1msNf46YQbzvP Cxo/GjfznUXuRgRsrXiwP3s+6jho2eECx/ZPRxy3g18BsvnZDi/CrZcWO0M/RwOKc7 edfLwsegkaqcqJy7z3SZqTFWI+V2oeLhqMgJjbsg= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.208.225.87]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb101 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M41Bm-1my7jL0nnW-00raUn; Sun, 31 Oct 2021 21:43:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8735okj2bx.fsf@zoho.eu> (Emanuel Berg via Users list for the's message of "Thu, 28 Oct 2021 22:56:18 +0200") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:OQ7QLPCdmyqwVSpsvbh4y2WZKkv9DSdwtsZA9TncXjb2+4e2UkZ Bdzd11O5KLaz2G5UBlxdmQFFiJUYW+H5Q0jPJmLcT7ShgKAQ6KpLzmrtDtxgm1ue17agbSw D3NihwpcPvxdRklmoQzIeYSLYRVTcm/rqPCQLL/K1ALjy51JA4I37dzIm1IfnmX7iybhN1p OLerjX7bTdH0O6J/ntTpg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:rfYXSk8mdTs=:5B+xjWhdSHOZtp2BOUb4GE mXN72aiy7SVVPCCfSD9OK3FS42BY7Yp10qTqmslAc6hdZFd9fPRqrZhICKg/mNfGOvjimzXin N6yqcAOJoadEy0Z2IGGlIz4n7OxESxbKgO9yB/rUO5LvwxdrTHoGhpzxuMFFGuzRBqELSZqp4 puRuKyNJwhbe5IIYUfdiwiMXwU0smQH036+WSPt19YzEt+I/VKnMUdg2XK40sD/rK/Z94KbN9 FLKxZz19BzLBvEc8xWmCDXsB6oB6LJKdiI1sGgTELBoppCWQZw2pqTDFVN9j6mqs2Zgvwjfhm zXPtJc+yJftNVuw6zh7L1QWusldaUN3Ea//V2FsBl1Mox/dHkf7gT38N5dt+TF1yHKzCgcEuU luyv79h20N3GAq4ag/CpzGWBt3n+lvxWku0Q/x5pRVIYAZtmPUAN7jeb9oSn97+2ooOrWrwFD LIN3It3LQTmEoiJDyk0THL7grlFMsHA6RlUpKCvNErdJF8bApzxwE0zt+wftzVUS0KXA+f/Vf dSGoryn/bmaEZFULJyG5Nj4RfvdHGCL8wtzs8LrSFEzdO4DRCgdgn514a4TpInd/um+w1xdVx crq4ePOVLbgBIZeE+PVMMydy4UpCLIMlJ4cTXjrlq1ftEzxIjgONYk09LhGZkONT5cMVHsMkE imVZvStkPxNV/BAH65JVMP+zaRfIa6TVolPVwnMObq2jApErmg59jFOlqSH0pNz52OU/2/rBA bNQqFkX7FSrijHK95y9Ry36HlutLPm4CTdejYfyYRhGFDazSUzwbHeJ/PtlAmIO1bMFNh2+e Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.12; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:134280 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor writes: > > Or using the formula mentioned, > > > > ln(N) ln(10) > > ------ = -------- < 1. > > ln(b) ln(60) > > I don't think I saw that, what does it say? It's really only just counting. The "10" above is the same as the 2^48 below - the total number of different passwords. > I've seen the first one, this > > 48 bits, alphabet length n, password length l > 2^48 = n^l <=> > 48*ln(2) = l*ln(n) <=> > l = 48*ln(2)/ln(n) > > which in Elisp is > > (defun epwgen-space-size-2 (bits abc-len) > (/ (* bits (log 2)) (log abc-len) )) > > ;; (epwgen-space-size-2 48 60) ; 8.13 > > Are you saying, that it is saying, "with 48 bits passwords > longer than 8.13 chars don't make it more secure"? For brute force attacks and when you know how the passwords are generated, then yes. If you don't publish your algorithm then passwords are good enough (unless for some reason one can guess or reconstruct the algorithm). Michael.