From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: General advice beyond Org Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 11:05:17 -0700 Message-ID: <877envftwi.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <5869d0fb59fb1052eca11f2cde706ebd@openmail.cc> <87vabgg481.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <20180522071050.GA26414@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1527013762 16234 195.159.176.226 (22 May 2018 18:29:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 18:29:22 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 22 20:29:18 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLC2A-000494-2g for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 20:29:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57260 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLC4H-0003cZ-7Y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 14:31:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42858) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBhp-0006L8-SS for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 14:08:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBhl-0000Xh-PN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 14:08:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=33485 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBhl-0000XA-JG for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 14:08:13 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLBfc-0002Os-0g for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 May 2018 20:06:00 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 43 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:FOVZk59jTrFxXkMuRvvOrTwD2Bw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116811 Archived-At: writes: > On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 01:10:06PM -0700, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > > [...] > >> For anyone who's paying attention to US politics (I hope it's not >> ruining your day) [...] > > There are so many ways to get one's day ruined... ;-) > >> positions that are held for emotional reasons only get stronger the more >> you attack them. >> >> Knowing nothing more about your adviser than what you've written in this >> thread, it sounds like it might be an emotional issue for her (as it may >> be for you, and certainly is for many of us here!). Meaning, she's >> likely to respond to any perceived "attack" by doubling down. > > > > I read that between your lines, but I think it's worth being stressed: > mainstream discourse has for a long time painted "emotional" (as > opposed to "rational") in a negative light. Since we perceive better > those emotions that are not ours, we tend to misuse that to detract > our opponents ("they are irrational") -- this verges on intellectual > dishonesty, and has IMO helped to reach the situation we have these > days. It's an echo of the reaction to the Age of Enlightenment that > Romanticism was. > > The sensible (heh :) way out, IMO, is to accept that the "other" has > as much right to her emotions as we have, and that our position only > *seems* more rational to us, because we can't see our emotions as > well as we can see the "other's". Or something. > > That doesn't mean to give up on one's position, nor to give up on > convincing the "other" -- but it includes (and that's the painful > part :-) accepting the possibility to be convinced by the "other". > > I certainly didn't mean to dump on "emotional"! I think most of us are working from emotional impulses most of the time; I think that's normal.