From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Thorpe Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 07:37:04 +0000 Message-ID: <877dnc4dwf.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> References: <7eccb0b5-8371-e34a-3371-09b75e1a385a@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23427"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 13 08:38:22 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lApVW-00060i-8D for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 08:38:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46670 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lApVV-000289-9w for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 02:38:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55012) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lApUy-000280-1x for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 02:37:48 -0500 Original-Received: from outbound-smtp15.blacknight.com ([46.22.139.232]:48275) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lApUu-00060w-DT for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 02:37:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.blacknight.com (pemlinmail04.blacknight.ie [81.17.254.17]) by outbound-smtp15.blacknight.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 618691C4532 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 07:37:38 +0000 (GMT) Original-Received: (qmail 20870 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2021 07:37:38 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO rt-inspiron-3480) (rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com@[109.76.74.4]) by 81.17.254.9 with ESMTPSA (AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 13 Feb 2021 07:37:38 -0000 In-Reply-To: <7eccb0b5-8371-e34a-3371-09b75e1a385a@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:37:10 +0200) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=46.22.139.232; envelope-from=rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com; helo=outbound-smtp15.blacknight.com X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127907 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 12.02.2021 10:10, Robert Thorpe wrote: >> I think that user-friendliness is beneficial. It would help with >> that if packages could bind some keys by default. > > The current tradition is that a package provides a major or minor mode > (or several), puts one of them in their init file, and *those* install > some default keymaps. > > auto-mode-alist entries, however, can be added through autoloads. Yes. But I don't think that solves the problems that Gregory Heyting and Drew Adams are talking about. Firstly, it can't do anything about changes in keybindings in future Emacs versions. Drew tells us that Emacs has recently mapped "C-x x", "C-x p" and "C-x /". I'm using Emacs 27.1, so all of those must have been mapped for Emacs 28 (or perhaps the version after that). The author of a third party package can't easily deal with that. What if their minor mode used "C-x x"? In that case it will remove the keymaps of a core feature (or the core feature will remove it's keymap). As Gregory Heyting has pointed out, what about packages that are not modes? Not every package is a minor mode or major mode. So, how should other types of package behave? Lastly, the usability issue is still there. I think beginners find this kind of thing difficult. These days there are lots of Emacs "starter kits" that claim to make Emacs simpler. A lot of what they do is configuring third-party packages. Philip Kaludercic suggested some code for prompting users before mapping keys. I think that's a good idea. BR, Robert Thorpe