From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: installed 22.1-0ubuntu4~feisty1, should i remove /etc/emacs21/site-start.d Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 04:43:40 +0200 Organization: sometimes Message-ID: <87642tn5wj.fsf@gnuvola.org> References: <1188524026.665001.286000@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com> <87r6lkm3qv.fsf@gnuvola.org> <12444835.post@talk.nabble.com> <87ir6ulzp6.fsf@gnuvola.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1188704436 21590 80.91.229.12 (2 Sep 2007 03:40:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 03:40:36 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 02 05:40:35 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IRgK9-0007KI-51 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 05:40:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRgK8-0000zP-5m for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 23:40:32 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!uio.no!quimby.gnus.org!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 56 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-144-38.21-151.libero.it Original-X-Trace: quimby.gnus.org 1188701058 23763 151.21.38.144 (2 Sep 2007 02:44:18 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@quimby.gnus.org Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 02:44:18 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:gww9Z/+MRu5BS77J3kLJvi88FEo= Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:151556 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:47079 Archived-At: () imputerate () Sat, 1 Sep 2007 19:07:11 -0700 (PDT) thi; would you take minute and go over the commands i issued to call strace; did i get them right? was the output the expected one? what about the "load" lines? look, i'm an old dude who can't remember dow, moy, yoc, or just plain epoch; you expect me to remember the POINT?! :-/ i suggested the strace command to help you be able to diagnose things yourself (so that you can be curmudgeonly standoffish to the next generation, you see ;-). the thinking is this: - strace insinuates itself between a program and the operating system API (aka "system calls"), reporting the arguments to the call and the return value in the format: FUNCTION (ARG0, ARG1, ...) => RETURN-VALUE - the "-e open" option restricts the tracing to the open(2) system call. the paren-two-close means you can put the cursor on that word and type `M-x man RET RET' to see more info. (try it!) - this means that for our purposes, FUNCTION will be "open", ARGn will include a filename, and RETURN-VALUE will be an integer (-1 for problems or non-negative if All Goes Well). - the file descriptor is used for subsequent (progam level) processing, such as reading, writing, etc. key concept: if there is no file descriptor there is no interaction! - we are all islands mucking around w/ magical trees that talk to each other. we cannot talk to each other directly. this may be saddening but it is also a challenge: how to know which way the wind blows for someone else's tree? how indeed?! i was hoping you would take the hint, but here is a more explicit suggestion: apply the scientific method. (a) what is it you want to discover? (b) what is the link between what you want to discover and what you can observe? (c) how can you provoke behavior that can be observable? (d) D is for DO AN EXPERIMENT! (which you did, cool!) (e) work "backwards" using the link (b) to make a statement about your model of Reality. (f) if you don't achieve (a), no worries, try again from (c) or (b). after some practice, the "backwards" in (e) will come more naturally and you may feel it is more like "sideways" or "upsidedown" or CURRENT-FAVORITE-PREPOSITION... then you will be able to rail on for half an hour, making a scotch-induced ass of yourself in public in the name of helping others w/ their personal emacs issues... ah, life. good luck! thi