From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Garreau\, Alexandre" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Where is Emacs Lisp taught ? Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 02:19:57 +0200 Message-ID: <875zxmgbwy.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> References: <5B8BFDC9-A07B-48FE-8C97-1BB0B84E5577@gmail.com> <53705d26-8a69-4453-aed9-ab72a0cd139e@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1540685909 16601 195.159.176.226 (28 Oct 2018 00:18:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:18:29 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus (5.13), GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.11) of 2017-09-15, modified by Debian Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Gene Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 28 02:18:25 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gGYmd-0004Bx-OV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 02:18:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38230 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gGYok-0007NG-5Q for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 20:20:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34664) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gGYoD-0007N0-Ix for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 20:20:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gGYoC-0001Ir-R8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 20:20:01 -0400 Original-Received: from portable.galex-713.eu ([2a00:5884:8305::1]:54986) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gGYoC-0001I5-JT for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 20:20:00 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=portable.galex-713.eu) by portable.galex-713.eu with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gGYoA-0004ew-7F; Sun, 28 Oct 2018 02:19:58 +0200 PGP-FINGERPRINT: E109 9988 4197 D7CB B0BC 5C23 8DEB 24BA 867D 3F7F Accept-Language: fr, en, eo, it, br In-Reply-To: <53705d26-8a69-4453-aed9-ab72a0cd139e@googlegroups.com> (Gene's message of "Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:05:13 -0700 (PDT)") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:5884:8305::1 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118453 Archived-At: On 2018-10-26 at 11:05, Gene wrote: > The missing Course is NOT one which emphasizes `functional' this or > `lispiness' that ... it's one which keeps it's eyes upon the prize: > "Exploiting the hell out of Emacs Lisp as a Domain-specific language > which saves YOU time by allowing YOU to outsource and delegate > time-consuming, tedious, otherwise-MANUAL operations!" > > Computer time is cheaper than dirt; YOUR TIME is priceless. Indeed, that=E2=80=99s what I meant when I said that I/O and high-level use= r-end facilities were what would make elisp a fantastic language for learning programming, *nonetheless* (I said this only to moderate what I was saying about how great would elisp be as a teaching language) the fact it is not as good as it could as a general language (that statement being made just because indeed, people find elisp great, so want to use it as a general-purpose language, and then become disappointed as they see it could be, but it=E2=80=99s difficult to make it so). In studying, what=E2=80=99s important actually is not the speed of the lang= uage, nor if it can run on a supercomputer or in space, nor even, if it=E2=80=99s= easy to read and write (unfortunately), but if students will find it useful: so in the end, the libraries win. And for now, python, for exactely that reason, is winning. While emacs libraries and interface to users, their content, and their internet, is amazing and have even more amazing potential (imagine if something such as Gnus could become a user-friendly user-agent for people learning how to use a computer and the internet, instead of DRM-ridden heavily-exploitable Mozilla software). That=E2=80=99d also give yet another good and practical reason to learn (he= nce prefer) emacs to gedit (note most people I knew who discovered gedit and difference between pure text and odt, became to use gedit instead of libreoffice: imagine if they knew emacs), visualcode, eclipse or code::blocks (or vim, but that=E2=80=99s yet another minority), bring more users, more non-only-text-editing users, and quicker push emacs for even better interfaces and improved security.