From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: florian@fsavigny.de (Florian v. Savigny) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: PSGML broken? (Yes, but fixed.) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 16:37:44 +0100 Message-ID: <874mt74gjb.fsf@bertrandrussell.Speedport_W_723V_1_36_000> References: <5482278A.3070402@gmx.de> <878uijhigb.fsf@bertrandrussell.Speedport_W_723V_1_36_000> <54843A5F.4020505@uni-koeln.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417966701 27465 80.91.229.3 (7 Dec 2014 15:38:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 15:38:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Ulrich Deiters Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 07 16:38:15 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxduZ-00060P-Bb for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 16:38:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58277 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxduY-0001S9-LY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 10:38:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxduG-0001Rr-O5 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 10:38:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xxdu8-00050H-1f for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 10:37:56 -0500 Original-Received: from srv4.ns-domain-hosting.de ([178.63.89.203]:39647) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xxdu7-0004zt-O6 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2014 10:37:47 -0500 X-No-Relay: not in my network X-No-Relay: not in my network Original-Received: from bertrandrussell.Speedport_W_723V_1_36_000 (p548BE8C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.139.232.199]) by srv4.ns-domain-hosting.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CF15D18687F; Sun, 7 Dec 2014 16:37:46 +0100 (CET) In-reply-to: <54843A5F.4020505@uni-koeln.de> (message from Ulrich Deiters on Sun, 07 Dec 2014 12:30:39 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 178.63.89.203 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:101471 Archived-At: Hi Ulrich, > - I found the marmalade repository and added it to the Emacs > repositories. What must I do next? "M-x list-packages" does not > show anything that looks related to SGML. You're halfway there, I think. The marmalade repo homepage (marmalade-repo.org) explains (a bit further down on the page): (add-to-list 'package-archives '("marmalade" . "http://marmalade-repo.org= /packages/")) ;; you've already done that, I think M-x package-refresh-contents ;; That's the step you are missing, I think I have tried that out, and it works fine. Although I got the following error message for the marmalade repo: Contacting host: marmalade-repo.org:80 gnutls.c: [0] (Emacs) fatal error: Die TLS-Verbindung wurde nicht sauber= beendet. that has not had any negative effects. (It might have to do with a current HTTPS bug in Emacs 24.4. - the version I am using -, which has not yet been fixed. They are explaining that on their homepage as well.) M-x list-packages then does list the psgml package I put there, and offers to install it. Whatever route you choose, I think it would be wise to uninstall the version of psgml that you are using first, if only to prevent possible confusion. If your psgml version is an official OpenSuSE package, you might want to advise them that it only works with Emacsen < 24. (You should, in that case, be able to uninstall it via YaST - I think psgml is usually installed as an extra package.) I have just run an install via M-x list-packages and the Install button of the psgml "page" it offers. It seems to work smoothly (including compilation - you can ignore the warnings), but please let me know if something does not work. If you are not yet familiar enough with the package system, have a look at C-h i m Emacs m Packages The only thing I can promise you is that PSGML in that version does work. > - I looked up the github page: Nice, but what am I supposed to > do there? The link to the lysator website is dead. If the github version works, installing it would probably a bit more manual work, and it is also possible to simply download the package from marmalade, untar it and install it. (Which would be more or less the same.) As to the lysator website, see my remark on Lennart Staflin below. > I am rather dismayed to find that XEmacs crashes, I do not want to enter into any which-editor-is-better debates (because I have never used anything but GNU Emacs), but I suspect that in switching to GNU Emacs, you have switched to the most viable flavour. It has been around for ~ 30 years now and is maturing and maturing and maturing. Without any haste. > that Emacs cannot enter PSGML mode (at least for me) I think with SGML, one has to accept that nobody uses it anymore for new projects, so nobody maintains anything anymore. (I have no idea how many SGML legacy documents which have not already been converted to XML still exist - except HTML, of course -, but I think those legacy documents will be the most important area.) The comp.text.sgml newsgroup has long been dead, and so has the psgml mailing list (nothing but a spam message about twice a year). When I applied the little syntax fixes to psgml, I had a hard time, and in fact, mostly failed in, tracking down the authors to ask their permission to put it on ELPA. (That is why it is only available on Marmalade.) Most prominently, Lennart Staflin himself. He never replied to mails, and I have no idea what has become of him. But that does not mean that SGML does not work. There is still a rock-solid parser (nsgmls) and, well, PSGML. (I use my own transformation tools, so I do not know much about this part of the toolchain.) My personal reason for indeed sticking to SGML, is, amazingly, PSGML. It's an extremely clever editor, and DTD-aware, and I have been able to extend it according to my needs in various ways. That said, I think James Clark's nXML mode is simpler and faster (and probably holds huge promise), but he somehow paused developing it some years ago due to his being too busy, and there is no (at least not yet any) documentation on how to extend it. I expect nXML development to resume in the future (but when?), and that even I will ultimately move everything to XML, but SGML does work. Using it is probably a bit like listening to vinyl records. Best regards, Florian --=20 Florian von Savigny Melanchthonstr. 41 33615 Bielefeld