Re: PSGML broken? (Yes, but fixed.)

[florian@fsavigny.de (Florian v. Savigny)]

Hi Ulrich,

  > - I found the marmalade repository and added it to the Emacs
  > repositories. What must I do next? "M-x list-packages" does not
  > show anything that looks related to SGML.


You're halfway there, I think. The marmalade repo homepage
(marmalade-repo.org) explains (a bit further down on the page):

(add-to-list 'package-archives '("marmalade" . "http://marmalade-repo.org/packages/"))
;; you've already done that, I think

M-x package-refresh-contents
;; That's the step you are missing, I think

I have tried that out, and it works fine. Although I got the following
error message for the marmalade repo:

	Contacting host: marmalade-repo.org:80
	gnutls.c: [0] (Emacs) fatal error: Die TLS-Verbindung wurde nicht sauber beendet.

that has not had any negative effects. (It might have to do with a
current HTTPS bug in Emacs 24.4. - the version I am using -, which has
not yet been fixed. They are explaining that on their homepage as
well.)

M-x list-packages then does list the psgml package I put there, and
offers to install it.

Whatever route you choose, I think it would be wise to uninstall the
version of psgml that you are using first, if only to prevent possible
confusion. If your psgml version is an official OpenSuSE package, you
might want to advise them that it only works with Emacsen < 24. (You
should, in that case, be able to uninstall it via YaST - I think psgml
is usually installed as an extra package.)

I have just run an install via M-x list-packages and the Install
button of the psgml "page" it offers. It seems to work smoothly
(including compilation - you can ignore the warnings), but please let
me know if something does not work.

If you are not yet familiar enough with the package system, have a
look at

C-h i
m Emacs
m Packages

The only thing I can promise you is that PSGML in that version does
work.


  > - I looked up the github page: Nice, but what am I supposed to
  > do there? The link to the lysator website is dead.

If the github version works, installing it would probably a bit more
manual work, and it is also possible to simply download the package
from marmalade, untar it and install it. (Which would be more or less
the same.)

As to the lysator website, see my remark on Lennart Staflin below.

  > I am rather dismayed to find that XEmacs crashes,

I do not want to enter into any which-editor-is-better debates
(because I have never used anything but GNU Emacs), but I suspect that
in switching to GNU Emacs, you have switched to the most viable
flavour. It has been around for ~ 30 years now and is maturing and
maturing and maturing. Without any haste.

  > that Emacs cannot enter PSGML mode (at least for me)

I think with SGML, one has to accept that nobody uses it anymore for
new projects, so nobody maintains anything anymore. (I have no idea
how many SGML legacy documents which have not already been converted
to XML still exist - except HTML, of course -, but I think those
legacy documents will be the most important area.) The comp.text.sgml
newsgroup has long been dead, and so has the psgml mailing list
(nothing but a spam message about twice a year).

When I applied the little syntax fixes to psgml, I had a hard time,
and in fact, mostly failed in, tracking down the authors to ask their
permission to put it on ELPA. (That is why it is only available on
Marmalade.) Most prominently, Lennart Staflin himself. He never
replied to mails, and I have no idea what has become of him.

But that does not mean that SGML does not work. There is still a
rock-solid parser (nsgmls) and, well, PSGML. (I use my own
transformation tools, so I do not know much about this part of the
toolchain.) My personal reason for indeed sticking to SGML, is,
amazingly, PSGML. It's an extremely clever editor, and DTD-aware, and
I have been able to extend it according to my needs in various
ways. That said, I think James Clark's nXML mode is simpler and faster
(and probably holds huge promise), but he somehow paused developing
it some years ago due to his being too busy, and there is no (at least
not yet any) documentation on how to extend it.

I expect nXML development to resume in the future (but when?), and
that even I will ultimately move everything to XML, but SGML does
work. Using it is probably a bit like listening to vinyl records.

Best regards,

Florian

-- 

Florian von Savigny
Melanchthonstr. 41
33615 Bielefeld