From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Danny YUE Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [Emacs] request: better subject lines Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 17:49:00 +0800 Message-ID: <8737cmi837.fsf@gmail.com> References: <874lx5dhwd.fsf@pippiandcarlos.com> <20170502134109.GA26043@tuxteam.de> <87lgqfjnsq.fsf@gmail.com> <20170503084950.GA26529@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1493805087 1753 195.159.176.226 (3 May 2017 09:51:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 09:51:27 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: mu4e 0.9.18; emacs 25.2.1 To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 03 11:51:21 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d5qwG-0000Dl-Dx for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 May 2017 11:51:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35576 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d5qwM-0007gB-6q for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 May 2017 05:51:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45820) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d5qvs-0007fp-Pf for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 May 2017 05:50:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d5qvn-0002Gd-VH for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 May 2017 05:50:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf0-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22f]:33361) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d5qvn-0002GH-Ob for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 03 May 2017 05:50:47 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id q20so10313317pfg.0 for ; Wed, 03 May 2017 02:50:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T9Uw/Vc3PXYN72LfIxqwZqP0FG0QOcRFqXAqejTqmbM=; b=SEF0uQCmqsqQg4hORSFJUtiFV0mON8KwWkY5SB+bKs1Tnct0LG1yV5ihDOUTAMKubB L5qvZQDxBkTKrXrFbsc0edBb+nX8jgzGYGJ/zM/kTOoiLXuG27oum6qFDA1lNmVzl2o6 knKJncFU0JoNEXgaYPbbi3iylYWJ2bzcE2RoQJGhE/VRtYZv5dV5+FlU9DupYcPiJG+M rwCI2DfKjsQH44mMSFWUzUQARwEv0p7tmqNYsakuE34OAnlJKChsB542dLikTg4Bvngz uGR0MVy5VsB8/Oxt6m62pTIzEMQPe1feghQaLZ41UKuNh53Mju9jSycvulDDmeNfry+2 tH6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:subject :in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T9Uw/Vc3PXYN72LfIxqwZqP0FG0QOcRFqXAqejTqmbM=; b=khmpAdKCj4Ceg1JYXxm57gOTvPXBv3c5kS0OWRntaAgfj52K0dwtleKjUMFvmjTHX8 QBLAbt2vEEoKnRcZmdZpcxCob6BTPr/My7Q4f2t2KmcncVp+2Y/JukXnq8YLE1+mJ/hF yi4ApYugMNQVkkQhoEGI2zzqna3EiNnW2KSgj9b3wt2SmuCaZ+ppHKgA1x7kxTJPWaEs GyiPz1a0norbtdW0P5IIhdmMl95UHVKC0CSAjynVX7lwg47JVjZN2bcUdcbVC5S/4vYr xIGLkmOZ6W5xkXStnJq93kJcCcNZStfyEIXqEWueb6ObPe/R7RYFsV3bHVYIWDuPxc2h XWbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/7BPrjSvJ/qHfL5ukMON4lLcINVw7uy61vFDCSKlaPeXTjd1wzO hKDs0e8WQrCIZQ== X-Received: by 10.84.129.67 with SMTP id 61mr48372200plb.150.1493805046602; Wed, 03 May 2017 02:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (23.83.238.120.16clouds.com. [23.83.238.120]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n7sm4213532pfn.0.2017.05.03.02.50.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 May 2017 02:50:45 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <20170503084950.GA26529@tuxteam.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22f X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:112938 Archived-At: On 2017-05-03 08:49, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 11:12:05PM +0800, Danny YUE wrote: > > [...] > >> Sharp, but makes sense. > > Sorry if it came across as "sharp". On a second reading I see what > you mean. That wasn't my intention. > > See, I'm in this business for long enough and have seen this pattern > (degradating mail for all of us just for not knowing what is out > there). I'll refrain from enumerating all the examples but this > one: Microsoft, insisting on doing message threading based on > Subject instead of on Message-ID, just because their @#&%$ mail > client is too broken to correctly "do" Message-ID ultimately forces > their lower standard on all of us. > > Now one can argue that some agents (Microsoft is surely among them, > but far from alone) have a deep financial stake on keeping mail semi- > broken: after all it's a decentral service, well-established, difficult > to silo. But seeing ourselves, who should be fighting to keep the last > few really free services out there in a working order following the > same pattern makes me... sad. Sometimes a bit angry. Sorry again. > > I'll try to control my temper better the next time. > >> Just take myself as an example: I am using mu4e in Emacs for viewing >> emails. It has information about "List" which shows which mailing list a >> new email comes from. >> >> >> So I can definitely recognize this is from "EmacsUser" list and open >> it... >> >> You see, try some tools out and it may not be a problem any more. > > Thanks for offering a constructive possibility :-) > > regards > - -- tomás > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAlkJma4ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZ4+QCfTgOtf28rWDhd88dEjDs6T77k > 1x0AniBTeaP0Dk8H6I2535+AFOSJMFVy > =lcMr > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- I believe there is a misunderstanding here, and I apologize if my expression made this happen. In fact I wanted to say "I agree with you". Maybe I should have put this line in front of my last email ;) I took myself as an example to show that using (and making) better tool makes more sense than forcing every other human being to follow one pattern that cannot be easily judged better or worse. Personally I do not think adding [TAG] into the subject line is a good idea, because that is more like a personal preference than something which really brings benefits. Some people favor it, some people hate it, some others don't really care, more of a taste instead of correctness. Sorry again for unclear message. Danny