From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Help for eclipse Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 16:16:42 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <871tuvttth.fsf@debian.uxu> References: <9bc9b6ed-e5c8-4c0c-949e-8bf90b096d5b@googlegroups.com> <87oay0721f.fsf@debian.uxu> <2cfe5201-407a-4f80-a6de-6ff3dc7d4382@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1402496429 30155 80.91.229.3 (11 Jun 2014 14:20:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:20:29 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 11 16:20:26 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WujO4-0000UI-Dm for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 16:20:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46769 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WujO3-0000ru-VD for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:20:23 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 73 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: SIvZRMPqRkkTHAHL6NkRuw.user.speranza.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:/jnxM2uB6El8jvggCh1aZDig2vY= Mail-Copies-To: never Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:205876 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:98147 Archived-At: adrians writes: > Emanuel, so based on your extensive experience with > Eclipse it's a total pain? I don't need extensive experience with Eclipse to know it sucks. I have very specific and well-defined parameters for what makes for good software. I can use just about any application and instantly know if it is software that "is me" or not. > Right. I can tell you from having used if for a heck > of a lot longer than you used it for that, configured > with the proper settings, it can be significantly > snappier than Emacs - at least under Windows. Snappy on Windows - isn't that a contradiction in terms? > In fact the general clunkiness of Emacs' scrolling > still bothers the heck out of me. (setq scroll-conservatively 10000) (setq auto-window-vscroll nil) Emacs is programmable - more on scrolling (one line at a time or in panes; left-to-right; etc.): [1] > As for which of these two environments is easier to > get accustomed to for someone new to them, please > don't suggest that it's Emacs. I don't care for new users that are negativistic about it. I was a new user once as well and while I read two books I used Emacs simultaneously and every day made improvements - to Emacs (as I saw it), and to my own understanding of it (and those two qualities are not easily separable after a while) - and never did I feel it was unpleasant or burdensome - the only thing I regret was being a bit too public about it, so people got expedition fever, and I didn't understand that, and got into some flame wars. Well, hell. Other than that, configuring/programming Emacs and learning Lisp was a wonderful experience, and I'm happy every day that I have a system which is to 95% exactly what I want. > For years now, Eclipse has had straightforward UI > discoverability through the use of Ctrl-3 which > allows you to search through all commands, views, > menus, etc., from one spot. Menus! - why don't you go use Finder if you like menus so much? (But there are GUI menus in the X version of Emacs, so that shouldn't be a problem for you if you really want them.) As for online help that's very elaborate in Emacs with the the dynamic docstring system that lets you add documentation at the same place as the code, and where documentation becomes instantly available at the moment that code is made available. > Just to be clear, I'm not contesting Emacs' greater > extensibility and power overall, just your statement > that Eclipse is "a pain" and, by implication, that > Emacs is not, from a noob's perspective. Emacs is much better in every aspect than Eclipse but I don't think there is any implication at work. [1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/emacs-init/scroll.el -- underground experts united: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573