From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: I want to contribute and chose right project for graduate thesis Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 04:22:33 +0200 Message-ID: <86wp6souc6.fsf@zoho.com> References: <86a83x93tl.fsf@zoho.com> <871sp9my5m.fsf@jane> <86wp717e67.fsf@zoho.com> <86poclqx3p.fsf@zoho.com> <87k22s2xyi.fsf@jane> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1501295013 21244 195.159.176.226 (29 Jul 2017 02:23:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 02:23:33 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 29 04:23:25 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dbHPV-0004vk-Np for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 04:23:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50881 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dbHPb-000793-FM for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:23:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53816) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dbHP6-00078y-9m for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:22:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dbHP3-0003qd-KA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:22:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=56063 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dbHP3-0003o8-C4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:22:53 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dbHOm-0002cv-OY for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 04:22:36 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Lines: 100 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:9hqOgBQfEvDiVHV9pOOEd5lZ0lQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:113904 Archived-At: Marcin Borkowski wrote: >> Well, yeah. Actually it is not the huge >> egos that is the problem. What I menat was >> - some time one these lists and groups >> people have an attitude to newcomers that >> isn't good, either they are reluctant to >> give good answers, like they answer in very >> short sentences, *or* they do the opposite, >> write several pages with details which the >> newcomer won't understand much of, and then >> they start speaking among themselves and >> the newcomer obviously doesn't feel >> encouraged to proceed with the project. > > I'm not sure whether I agree. A short answer > may be quite good. It may give a pointer - > a starting point to learn. And if someone > doesn't get it, they may always ask > further questions. Obviously not the kind of short answer I refered to. >> Right. Like most other things it is better >> to learn that along the way. Many educations >> work like that way by the way. Like CS. >> They don't teach programming, at least not >> here they don't. It is just something you >> are expected to pick up while doing AI, >> databases, interfaces, and what have you... >> And it makes sense! Universities should be >> theory and practice that is oriented to the >> theory, not to the practice itself. > > +1 from me. May I hang this quotation on my > office's door so that all students can see > it? ;-) Well, I know it is the right attitude, but perhaps the quote isn't that good because one could get the impression that practice isn't important. Which of course it is. It is the one thing that produces result and the one thing that ultimately will give self-confidence and joy of work (or "joy of activity"). It is just that anyone who is determined can do it and sooner or later it will happen. Theory and knowledge which isn't acquired at school or with higher education is much, much more difficult to obtain on your own. And a fraction of the people do it. But of course it could happen - in theory :) Also, if you get theory and knowledge from the university, practice becomes much more fun as it gets another dimension. And if it is more fun you tend to like it more and do it more. > Really? I did two master's degrees, and both > were finished JIT. And I'm not an exception - > many, many of my colleagues did > a similar thing. My CS education of 5 years took me 6 years, 7 months, and 12 days. 365 days a year. Perhaps 1/3rd of the extra time was because of my perfectionism, the other 2/3rd were due to wierd bugs, incompatible software, missing libraries, circular dependencies in Makefiles, recompiling LaTeX a zillion times, you get the idea, basically everything that hasn't to do with a lack of theoretical understanding. And I know this to be very common. > Well, in maths, theory is basically all > you've got;-) Don't you have number crunching machines at least and other kind of tech equipment? But math is the most abstract science, save for perhaps logic which I don't know maybe people consider part of math, or math being the implementation of logic perhaps? And math *is* a youth thing! All the guys that get awards are in their late 20s and then they go to India to become mystics in their early and middle 30s. You want the award? You can't *handle* the award! :) -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573