Magit obsolete ?

Magit obsolete ?

[jonetsu]

Hello,  

I'm looking for git support within emacs.  After browsing here and
there it looks like Magit would be a good contender.  The latest update
on the Magit web page is from the end of last year.  The version in
melpa seems even more recent: 20190202.1535.

However the first two description lines of the package in melpa are:

magit is an available obsolete package.

Status: Available Obsolete from melpa

What gives ?

Cheers.

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

jonetsu wrote:

> I'm looking for git support within emacs.
> After browsing here and there it looks like
> Magit would be a good contender. The latest
> update on the Magit web page is from the end
> of last year. The version in melpa seems even
> more recent: 20190202.1535.
>
> However the first two description lines of
> the package in melpa are:
>
> magit is an available obsolete package.
>
> Status: Available Obsolete from melpa
>
> What gives ?

Good question, however on the EmacsWiki it says

    Magit is the most popular front end for
    Git. If you are new to Git and do not need
    support for other vcs this is likely the
    package you should try first. [1]

so I don't think it is obsolete in general.
That must refer to the particular version, or
something else.

Besides it doesn't matter if something is
"obsolete" as long as it works and is
beneficial to the user.

[1] https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Git

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

Typo on the EmacsWiki Git page [1]

* This blob post adds direct git add and git
  reset support to VC.

Should be "blog", as blob = binary large object [2]

[1] https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Git
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_large_object

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Amin Bandali]

On 2019-02-08 12:07 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:

[...]

>
> Besides it doesn't matter if something is
> "obsolete" as long as it works and is
> beneficial to the user.
>

Seconded; I can’t imagine not having/using Magit.  Also, where on the
MELPA website does it say Magit is obsolete?  I had a look at Magit’s
page on both current[1] and stable[2] but didn’t see it there.

[1]: https://melpa.org/#/magit
[2]: https://stable.melpa.org/#/magit

Best,
amin

RE: Magit obsolete ?

[Drew Adams]

> Typo on the EmacsWiki Git page [1]
> 
> * This blob post adds direct git add and git
>   reset support to VC.
> 
> Should be "blog", as blob = binary large object 

You can just fix the typo in situ.  Anyone can edit
the wiki page (it's a wiki).

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[jonetsu]

On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 17:22:23 -0500
jonetsu <jonetsu@teksavvy.com> wrote:

> magit is an available obsolete package.
> Status: Available Obsolete from melpa

Thanks for the replies.  I found it odd that the melpa interface in
emacs would mention 'obsolete'.  Maybe i set up melpa wrong ?  Hmmmm.

A question: several other packages were mention in the Magit
description.  Are these installed automatically when using the melpa
interface in emacs ?

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

Drew Adams wrote:

>> Typo on the EmacsWiki Git page [1]
>> 
>> * This blob post adds direct git add and git
>>   reset support to VC.
>> 
>> Should be "blog", as blob = binary large
>> object
>
> You can just fix the typo in situ. Anyone can
> edit the wiki page (it's a wiki).

Tell me, Mr. Adams, what good is a wiki page,
if you are unable to edit it?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

jonetsu wrote:

>> magit is an available obsolete package.
>> Status: Available Obsolete from melpa
>
> Thanks for the replies. I found it odd that
> the melpa interface in emacs would mention
> 'obsolete'. Maybe i set up melpa wrong
> ? Hmmmm.

Here is what it says for me:

    magit is an available package.

         Status: Available from melpa -- [Install]
        Archive: melpa
        Version: 20190202.1535
       Requires: emacs-25.1, async-20180527, dash-20180910,
                   git-commit-20181104, magit-popup-20181003,
                   with-editor-20181103
        Summary: A Git porcelain inside Emacs.

    Magit is an interface to the version
    control system Git, implemented as an Emacs
    package. Magit aspires to be a complete Git
    porcelain. While we cannot (yet) claim,
    that Magit wraps and improves upon each and
    every Git command, it is complete enough to
    allow even experienced Git users to perform
    almost all of their daily version control
    tasks directly from within Emacs.
    While many fine Git clients exist, only
    Magit and Git itself deserve to be
    called porcelains.

> A question: several other packages were mention
> in the Magit description. Are these installed
> automatically when using the melpa interface
> in emacs ?

You mean the "Requires:" stuff? Yes, they are
installed when you install Magit (hit the
install button).

That is a big part of the whole idea with
a package manager and a software repository.
Every package says I rely on A, B, and C, then
A, B, and C say they rely on etc etc and
hopefully at some point there is no more
relying and the installation is complete and
everything put into place in good order.

In theory, it is very simple :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[jonetsu]

On Fri, 08 Feb 2019 01:38:35 +0100
Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> wrote:

> Here is what it says for me:
> 
>     magit is an available package.
> 
>          Status: Available from melpa -- [Install]

Here it has shown the two lines I pasted at the beginning of this
thread.  I wonder why it has shown that 'obsolete' mention here.
There's only one melpa repository isn't it ?  And since Magit is an
active project since quite some time I don't think that a missing
packages-refresh-contents would be a valid culprit.  Ah well,
everything points to the fact that Magit is a very active project.  I
just found it odd that melpa would have such a contradictory mention.
I of course installed it anyways.

Cheers.

RE: Magit obsolete ?

[Drew Adams]

> >> Typo on the EmacsWiki Git page [1]
> >>
> >> * This blob post adds direct git add and git
> >>   reset support to VC.
> >>
> >> Should be "blog", as blob = binary large
> >> object
> >
> > You can just fix the typo in situ. Anyone can
> > edit the wiki page (it's a wiki).
> 
> Tell me, Mr. Adams, what good is a wiki page,
> if you are unable to edit it?

Tell me, Mr Berg, can you not edit that wiki page?

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Git

If not, please email the wiki maintainer - or
log the problem here:

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsWikiProblems

Everyone should be able to edit that Git page,
using the link "Edit this page" at the bottom of
the page.  That link should take you here:

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs?action=edit;id=Git

(Likewise, everyone should be able to edit the
EmacsWikiProblems page.)

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Alexis]

jonetsu <jonetsu@teksavvy.com> writes:

> Hello,  
>
> I'm looking for git support within emacs.  After browsing here 
> and
> there it looks like Magit would be a good contender.  The latest 
> update
> on the Magit web page is from the end of last year.  The version 
> in
> melpa seems even more recent: 20190202.1535.
>
> However the first two description lines of the package in melpa 
> are:
>
> magit is an available obsolete package.
>
> Status: Available Obsolete from melpa
>
> What gives ?

Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but in the context of ELPAs like 
MELPA, 'obsolete' often/usually means "a newer version of this 
package is available". So if version 20190202.1535 of Magit is 
available, but you were looking at the description for an earlier 
version, e.g. 20190201.2340, you'll be told that version is 
"obsolete".

Of course, this is indeed a different meaning to how 'obsolete' is 
used in non-ELPA Emacs contexts, where "this library is obsolete" 
often/usually means "don't use this library any more".


Alexis.

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Brett Gilio]

Amin Bandali writes:

> On 2019-02-08 12:07 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>
>> Besides it doesn't matter if something is
>> "obsolete" as long as it works and is
>> beneficial to the user.
>>
>
> Seconded; I can’t imagine not having/using Magit.  Also, where on the
> MELPA website does it say Magit is obsolete?  I had a look at Magit’s
> page on both current[1] and stable[2] but didn’t see it there.
>
> [1]: https://melpa.org/#/magit
> [2]: https://stable.melpa.org/#/magit
>
> Best,
> amin

I think if there are any legitimate concerns of Magit being moved to an
unmaintained status (which I doubt) the appropriate place to ask would
be on the issue page for Magit, which I believe is GitHub.

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[jonetsu]

On Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:14:34 +1100
Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but in the context of ELPAs like 
> MELPA, 'obsolete' often/usually means "a newer version of this 
> package is available". So if version 20190202.1535 of Magit is 
> available, but you were looking at the description for an earlier 
> version, e.g. 20190201.2340, you'll be told that version is 
> "obsolete".
> 
> Of course, this is indeed a different meaning to how 'obsolete' is 
> used in non-ELPA Emacs contexts, where "this library is obsolete" 
> often/usually means "don't use this library any more".

It's an unfortunate choice to use this word.  'Obsolete'
carries a pronounced definitive sense to it.  Amongst the synonyms are
'old-fashioned', 'antediluvian' and 'anachronistic' :)

A bit drastic for a day-old version I'd say.

Cheers.

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

Drew Adams wrote:

>> Tell me, Mr. Adams, what good is a wiki
>> page, if you are unable to edit it?
>
> Tell me, Mr Berg, can you not edit that
> wiki page?

OMG, it works!

Life in the vault sure has changed since
I last roamed cyberspace!

Mess with the best - die like the rest.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

Alexis wrote:

> Maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but in the
> context of ELPAs like MELPA, 'obsolete'
> often/usually means "a newer version of this
> package is available". So if version
> 20190202.1535 of Magit is available, but you
> were looking at the description for an
> earlier version, e.g. 20190201.2340, you'll
> be told that version is "obsolete".

Yeah, that's what I said in my first post.
You said it better but I also said it. See?
I'm smart :)

But not so smart as to understand why the OP
ends up with a page for an obsolete/outdated
version of Magit, instead of the regular one?

Perhaps the OP was such a bad boy he navigated
there thru some unconventional, perhaps even
obsolete method?

> Of course, this is indeed a different meaning
> to how 'obsolete' is used in non-ELPA Emacs
> contexts, where "this library is obsolete"
> often/usually means "don't use this library
> any more".

Perhaps this is a case when one should have
obeyed tradition. However at this time there is
a new tradition and if people changed it it
would perhaps cause even more confusion.

Obey tradition!

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

Brett Gilio wrote:

> I think if there are any legitimate concerns
> of Magit being moved to an unmaintained
> status (which I doubt) the appropriate place
> to ask would be on the issue page for Magit,
> which I believe is GitHub.

Yes, let's go and tell them the news first hand
their software is now unmaintained :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Stefan Monnier]

> magit is an available obsolete package.
> Status: Available Obsolete from melpa
> What gives ?

Looks like a bug/misfeature somewhere in package.el.
Could you `M-x report-emacs-bug` for it so we can figure out what's
going on?  Maybe it's "correct" but presented in a confusing way
(e.g. the particular version you're looking at is superceded by a newer
version), or maybe....


        Stefan

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[jonetsu]

On Fri, 08 Feb 2019 15:57:00 +0100
Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> wrote:

> Perhaps the OP was such a bad boy he navigated
> there thru some unconventional, perhaps even
> obsolete method?

Not sure.  Within emacs I did:

package-list-packages

Then did a text search for 'magit'.

Then clicked on the main magit package.

Then what I pasted in the first post appeared in another frame.

Now that the package is installed, 'magit' is no longer in the list.  A
certain number of magit-related packages are, but not magit itself.

In this case is it still possible to view the information that was
shown the first time around ?

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

jonetsu wrote:

> Now that the package is installed, 'magit' is
> no longer in the list. A certain number of
> magit-related packages are, but not
> magit itself.

Make a search for it and keep searching. It is
still in the list, just in the "installed" part
and not the initial "available" part.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[jonetsu]

On Fri, 08 Feb 2019 16:23:01 +0100
Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> wrote:

> Make a search for it and keep searching. It is
> still in the list, just in the "installed" part
> and not the initial "available" part.

OK, found it.  The description does not mention 'obsolete' anymore but
'installed'.  Ah well.

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[jonetsu]

On Fri, 08 Feb 2019 10:03:37 -0500
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> Looks like a bug/misfeature somewhere in package.el.
> Could you `M-x report-emacs-bug` for it so we can figure out what's
> going on?  Maybe it's "correct" but presented in a confusing way
> (e.g. the particular version you're looking at is superceded by a
> newer version), or maybe....

Never sent a bug report before.  I wrote the description then pressed
C-c twice and accepted the default email sender.... which was this
firefox-related thing, which I don't use.  I use claws-mail.  I Tried
to resend again so perhaps I can specify another way but it did nto ask
me for the emailer again.

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Phillip Lord]

jonetsu <jonetsu@teksavvy.com> writes:

> On Fri, 08 Feb 2019 10:03:37 -0500
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
>> Looks like a bug/misfeature somewhere in package.el.
>> Could you `M-x report-emacs-bug` for it so we can figure out what's
>> going on?  Maybe it's "correct" but presented in a confusing way
>> (e.g. the particular version you're looking at is superceded by a
>> newer version), or maybe....
>
> Never sent a bug report before.  I wrote the description then pressed
> C-c twice and accepted the default email sender.... which was this
> firefox-related thing, which I don't use.  I use claws-mail.  I Tried
> to resend again so perhaps I can specify another way but it did nto ask
> me for the emailer again.


I've sent a bug report in. Just email "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" to make
a report. It's bug#34390.

"Obsolete" means "there is a more recent version also installed" as far
as I can tell, rather than just "outdated". I agree it's not a good
word. Not quite sure what a better one would be.

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Brett Gilio]

Phillip Lord writes:

> jonetsu <jonetsu@teksavvy.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 08 Feb 2019 10:03:37 -0500
>> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a bug/misfeature somewhere in package.el.
>>> Could you `M-x report-emacs-bug` for it so we can figure out what's
>>> going on?  Maybe it's "correct" but presented in a confusing way
>>> (e.g. the particular version you're looking at is superceded by a
>>> newer version), or maybe....
>>
>> Never sent a bug report before.  I wrote the description then pressed
>> C-c twice and accepted the default email sender.... which was this
>> firefox-related thing, which I don't use.  I use claws-mail.  I Tried
>> to resend again so perhaps I can specify another way but it did nto ask
>> me for the emailer again.
>
>
> I've sent a bug report in. Just email "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" to make
> a report. It's bug#34390.
>
> "Obsolete" means "there is a more recent version also installed" as far
> as I can tell, rather than just "outdated". I agree it's not a good
> word. Not quite sure what a better one would be.

I replied to that email, but for posterity effort, I am in favor of the
term "superseded".

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[Emanuel Berg]

Brett Gilio wrote:

>> I've sent a bug report in. Just email
>> "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" to make a report.
>> It's bug#34390. "Obsolete" means "there is
>> a more recent version also installed" as far
>> as I can tell, rather than just "outdated".
>> I agree it's not a good word. Not quite sure
>> what a better one would be.
>
> I replied to that email, but for posterity
> effort, I am in favor of the term
> "superseded".

+1

It is a good word.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Magit obsolete ?

[A540OJhQ3kS]

Hello,

The same thing happened to me and I was wondering why it shows "obsolete" even for newly installed packages without any preexisting ones. So I used to read it as "installed" thinking it as some emacs thing because it seems, at least to me, emacs likes to use its own terms in its own way. Anyway, it was not a problem because it always informed me if there's any available update. Some time later, I found that all of "obsolete" signs were changed to more sensible "installed". I wondered why but wasn't bothered to dig into. Just an experience seconding yours.

Best regards

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 11:51 AM, <phillip.lord@russet.org.uk> wrote:

> jonetsu <jonetsu@teksavvy.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 08 Feb 2019 10:03:37 -0500
>> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a bug/misfeature somewhere in package.el.
>>> Could you `M-x report-emacs-bug` for it so we can figure out what's
>>> going on? Maybe it's "correct" but presented in a confusing way
>>> (e.g. the particular version you're looking at is superceded by a
>>> newer version), or maybe....
>>
>> Never sent a bug report before. I wrote the description then pressed
>> C-c twice and accepted the default email sender.... which was this
>> firefox-related thing, which I don't use. I use claws-mail. I Tried
>> to resend again so perhaps I can specify another way but it did nto ask
>> me for the emailer again.
>
> I've sent a bug report in. Just email "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" to make
> a report. It's bug#34390.
>
> "Obsolete" means "there is a more recent version also installed" as far
> as I can tell, rather than just "outdated". I agree it's not a good
> word. Not quite sure what a better one would be.