From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Test Alternative initialize scheme Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2018 16:48:42 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <86r2nprbxx.fsf@zoho.com> References: <20180404231211.GB31955@mail.akwebsoft.com> <86zi2g2lzp.fsf@zoho.com> <86muygyp84.fsf@zoho.com> <86woxi8oco.fsf@zoho.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1523198907 14395 195.159.176.226 (8 Apr 2018 14:48:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 14:48:27 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 08 16:48:22 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f5BcD-0003d0-8b for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2018 16:48:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59815 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f5BeJ-0007cQ-0d for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2018 10:50:31 -0400 X-Received: by 10.28.160.21 with SMTP id j21mr2180576wme.5.1523198923914; Sun, 08 Apr 2018 07:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!q67no2346521wme.0!news-out.google.com!k195ni17904wmd.0!nntp.google.com!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 88 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ey7daRps1n1jd+mMaOEjpw.user.gioia.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.3 Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:9G7znIYdKjm2e04mAE20tBa4nkI= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:222285 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116406 Archived-At: Nikolay Kudryavtsev wrote: > Most of those kits are .el file based, > usually they provide a preset ~/.emacs.d. > Actually since having multiple configurations > like this is somewhat common, maybe someone > should open a feature request to implement it > as a flag out of box, something like > --with-user-emacs-directory... Good idea, if now things are like this anyway... > It's less complicated for the end user, > especially the new user, because successfully > configuring Emacs for different advanced > applications involves making dozens of > decisions. Most of those decisions require > some knowledge and testing. And you may still > wound up with something controversial. > This is even harder for a new user when > there's already a learning curve. It is much better if the developers put their energy and creativity in truly advancing the scope of the technology, rather than to putting it together in new ways, just because the user is supposedly too incompetent to install their stuff on the base platform! 1) it is a waste of creative energy 2) the user isn't that stupid 3) and if the user IS, s/he is much more benefited from leaving that state ASAP, rather than a tailor-made product, and it isn't a huge cognitive leap if anyone thought that 4) and besides using that distro/kit will imply other issues - and how to solve those? yet another distro/kit - return to base and start over? etc. etc. >> why not put the same effort into making the >> software lay onto each other in >> a straightforward way bottom-up? > > Because this requires each package developer > to be aware of pretty much every package that > may be used simultaneously with yours. > I'm explicitly talking about Emacs here First, does it really require a huge stack of packages just to change *the keyboard layup*? Second, if it does, why is this a problem? We can go right now to M/ELPA and see that the pack "academic-phrases", whatever that is ("Bypass that mental block when writing your papers." :D ???), we learn that it requires dash-2.12.0, s-1.12.0, ht-2.0, emacs-24 and then we can learn that "dash" (not the shell by the way but "[a] modern list library for Emacs"), that dash doesn't require anything and certainly not academic-phrases, so there is no circular or interdependency situation. Just do it! So this is obviously not the problem, so can you describe it again or provide an example? > The way to help with it upstream is providing > protocols for package devs to use, the new > xref is one such thing. OK, I don't know xref (do tell!) but in principle that's infinitely much better than burning down the house to kill the rats - each time. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573