From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Torbj=C3=B6rn_Granlund?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Another Emacs incompatibilty Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 22:57:03 +0200 Message-ID: <86r1s648dc.fsf@shell.gmplib.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24620"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (berkeley-unix) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 16 23:08:30 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k7PtG-0006KJ-Bz for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:08:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56050 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7PtF-0002LF-Ds for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 17:08:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45100) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7PiH-0001By-0V for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 16:57:09 -0400 Original-Received: from martin.gmplib.org ([130.242.124.102]:50172 helo=shell.gmplib.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7PiF-0005We-5N for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 16:57:08 -0400 Original-Received: by shell.gmplib.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7379BE365; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 22:57:03 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: none client-ip=130.242.124.102; envelope-from=tg@gmplib.org; helo=shell.gmplib.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/16 16:57:03 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = FreeBSD 9.x or newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 17:08:09 -0400 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:123675 Archived-At: Rms once said something along the lines of Imagine if every car manufacturer would need to rearrange the controls of their car in order to avoid look-and-feel copyrights. The picture was clear, the steering wheel, the brake pedal, the gear shift would all need to be changed around for each manufacturer. What does this have to do with emacs? Well, each emacs release changes things to make much of what we long term users have gotten accustomed to invalid. A few releases back, the way the area between the mark and the insert point worked was fundamentally changed. (Replace the steering wheel with a lever!) Indent region? Change that to a different key! (Replace the braking pedal with a handle bar!) Encrypted email broke with incompatible changes in emacs 25 or 26. I spent many hours trying to get it to work again, but had to give up. In the end I essentually stopped encrypting email. Now, with emacs 27 gremlins are inserted each time a window's focus changes. I need to either suspend emacs before changing focus, or undo these gremlin insertions when returning to emacs.=C3=84O=C3=84I=C3=84O=C3= =84I Oops, some gremlins snuck in there.=C3=84O=C3=84I And there. Oops agaun. There have been dozens of other major incompatible changes in the last 10 or so years. To me, emacs is in a state of deterioration. By all means, add features. Don't mess with the existing interface. Don't break things. I am sure I could maintain an ever increasing .emacs to work around most of the incompatibilities and keep the controls work as they did. If only I had some more hours each week. Torbj=C3=B6rn GMP maintainer (previously worked on gcc, foundations of glibc, and several GNU command line utilities)