From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arash Esbati Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: completing-read depricated initial-input Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 23:28:17 +0200 Message-ID: <86letphfke.fsf_-_@gnu.org> References: <86r13hubaw.fsf_-_@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2050"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 Cc: Christopher Dimech , "eliz@gnu.org" , "monnier@iro.umontreal.ca" , Help Gnu Emacs , "carlmarcos@tutanota.com" , "michael_heerdegen@web.de" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 21 23:29:19 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o3lR0-0000HT-TA for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 23:29:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53336 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3lQz-0006js-JN for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:29:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33680) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3lQa-0006jS-6K for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:28:52 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55878) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3lQY-0007Bi-Md; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:28:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=frYoa6quoArt5OYUrbxRcOtMkAw+3ZfyIqslKeElWOQ=; b=LSGWLwYAVeuGtwiuJlWB E+ysMF79XwA7amhd8QpY0V05syUIN5aNonJ0HUq6vYRzcDoPdzJnqSRJhzJG03LykXtjKMuNN4Uta RxqMJFNrNs98Em12GE5qo0QLLds5A9/VD1fbbBLHOoEkU7He5vyK7+ABajKjuNh0gQ0ObOmM3RO0g mNMA7jvfXUKeGL7+oEhMFI+T5rI1egx7mCiiVih//bJD5umiZy+A2TLv6PCGEzx1h9W8uVv2A3/g1 uOKDLC5HutYv/Z1Mj2LEwCiHeVP+3cRKvXzgBmxcaS2Mr8gO+4FazejtoCxVG9U41pr+1G5iy2wQn ROl5RGMooYG4lQ==; Original-Received: from p4fe3ee56.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([79.227.238.86]:59006 helo=MUTANT) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3lQY-0008U1-7K; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 17:28:50 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 21 Jun 2022 20:41:31 +0000") X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137971 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> > 3. The "argument" for deprecating it amounted to only >> > a statement that stylistically some preferred that >> > only the DEF (default value) argument be used. > ^^^^ >> >> I thought the argument was "INITIAL-INPUT in too >> intrusive in the minibuffer, most notably, when >> it's not what the user wants, and then the hassle >> with C-a C-k and such begins". > > That's an argument about UI interaction style. And > the "only" is the real key to what's misguided. I agree that there are cases where INITIAL-INPUT still has its place, but as I said, I remember the reason for phasing it out was different than stylistic preferences. > `completing-read' is extremely general, allowing for many different > interactions for many different kinds of use cases. True, unfortunately. > BTW, independently of this discussion (and even > independently of completion), there should be a > single key to empty the minibuffer. (Icicles > has provided `M-k' for that forever.) I presume you've suggested this addition to Emacs? >> As a personal note, the INITIAL-INPUT was something in AUCTeX which >> bugged for me for a long time, especially in queries for length >> arguments. I can't say how often I've deleted "1.0\linewidth" in my >> life. > > That you don't want INITIAL-INPUT is one thing. > That some library might not make a good decision > about its use is another thing. > > Whether INITIAL-INPUT should be deprecated is > a third thing - something completely different. Not sure about this one. I mean, Emacs has a lot of external (i.e., not maintained in core) libraries and it would be a major advantage if they all feel the same when you use them. Hence, I understand the general direction of "deprecating a feature" to streamline the look&feel, but you're still free to use the old feature if you think it has a added value from a user perspective. In my example above, it wasn't a good decision, so I changed it. Best, Arash