From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: info-find-source Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 01:43:01 +0100 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <86bmhyk2qy.fsf@zoho.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515804555 2833 195.159.176.226 (13 Jan 2018 00:49:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 00:49:15 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 13 01:49:11 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eaA0J-00087M-AO for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2018 01:48:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52030 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eaA2I-0000P0-ND for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2018 19:51:02 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 70 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: zRXoCvQ6k9fneBfYPnB6lQ.user.gioia.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:TYiFQabCCmbkj5BXt8qlOm6CKgw= Mail-Copies-To: never Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:221560 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:115677 Archived-At: OK, there seems to be a bit of confusion here with respect to what I mean. So I'd like to clarify a few thing. That said, I'm not saying any of this to try to sway anyone. It is just my POV. First, I don't think info is bad in any way. Actually, I think it is very good! To have a uniform interface to documentation and to have people add new pieces to it, in a uniform way, which will then fit seamlessly, is great. I encourage everyone who has written a larger piece of software to do it, no doubt. Markup and interconnectivity, if that is a word, is also good. The man pages are both as well and I never felt the need to browse the groff source. That the documentation comes with Emacs, or is on-line (i.e., not on paper) - remember the terrible Sierra On-Line adventure games? - is also a good thing, even tho a web version is also good. And because of the uniformity one can easily use or write a tool that will translate info material into HTML or whatever format is desired. The issue I have with info is that it is easy to get lost when navigating all those node back and forth in the tree structure, back and forth in history, up to the parent and down to the child until you are stuck at a leaf and you still haven't found what you are looking for. And you do all this with keys that you do not use every day for editing. Compare this to the man pages where this never happens (because of less complexity), *or* a plain text files, where by definition it cannot ever happen. But doesn't this mean the files will be very long? Yes, and I don't have a problem with that as this volume is linear, not broken down into a complicated tree structure one has to traverse to get to the rainbow's end. The speed I've mentioned isn't the speed it takes to execute a command, it the the general speed of access, the human-computer interface if you will, which again per definition (unless your cognitive "humanity" differs from mine), this will be much, much faster with text because I edit text and code every day, using the same functions and finger-habits, and no matter how fluent an info user I'll ever be, it could never, ever match that. Also, how does info look to you guys? To me, it looks like this: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/pics/info.png The problems getting an overview what's going on may be related to that, as well. -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573