From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Trying to find the status of auto-fill-mode in a buffer Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2024 21:27:26 +0200 Message-ID: <868qtdso2p.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20241119084323.5e3eaeb0@enoush2o> <86jzczbm0l.fsf@aarsen.me> <20241119114909.5cb99396@enoush2o> <87o72b3yzi.fsf@web.de> <87a5duxrrg.fsf@gmail.com> <87ttc1ki0a.fsf@web.de> <871pz5yjaj.fsf@gmail.com> <87ikshk9a6.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4838"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 20 20:28:03 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tDqMs-00013S-KJ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2024 20:28:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tDqMN-0000Zr-6u; Wed, 20 Nov 2024 14:27:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tDqMM-0000ZV-0Z for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2024 14:27:30 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tDqML-0000uo-Li for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2024 14:27:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=l0h/0k2IKtsVEYaDSj4ipBy6ZYwN5ngwak0FIubTfuY=; b=i3eiA9+4TMruzb1ef8WB BVc+WFPDmnTZbjgp7TawiFjEhrwfbOK5gEfABtE1A1R70Lo2UX50XDZ1g63hauYAZbbhLdpd0/Wz8 m2epOS3Nv3POVyJqKWO+kCgkPVzm8AVr88k+NXj0NRh8eGSJEsRNNgxeX2kkphpznW4ja9dEGd9d5 JxxQQ2gch9NAq2POTuMHb+nqp/D0sgnYwRFA6XAhEYZ44iVeIoWzV66k6iccfZcz154l4r/Y7lxsT qNUZ6Uw1oN884TpBiN79SpUyKRxoNT138IkABsUYtB58TJSaL6eISCFY40gwXYMG7APd2WDPLTblM hMxdA/DmTRJ4MA==; In-Reply-To: <87ikshk9a6.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor on Wed, 20 Nov 2024 20:14:09 +0100) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:148359 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2024 20:14:09 +0100 > From: Michael Heerdegen via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor > > Robert Pluim writes: > > > I just meant that someone starting out with Emacs is unlikely to > > understand what is meant by it (unless theyʼre already versed in > > lisp). So 'value' is probably best, but if we change the text to say > > "look at the value of the variable auto-fill-function", we will then > > get "How do I do that?" :-) (and not everyone realises you can click > > on the variable name or press RET on it) > > I see it a bit differently: the current wording in this case uses an > artificial, unnatural language, like "to find out how many people came > to the party, evaluate `3'". That's also why it's unnecessarily > confusing. > > "Value" is something I would avoid, especially in this context where > buffer local bindings are involved. "Binding of VAR" is a wording we > use all over the place, for example in the manual. One can could look > it up. To understand what is going on one has to be a bit familiar with > the basic concepts (like buffer local bindings) anyway, so I see no > reason not to use the language associated with these concepts. > > And this sentence is not there to answer all questions. We just should > avoid directing people in a wrong direction. Let me turn the table and ask what's wrong with "evaluate the variable"? If we are afraid that people will not know how to evaluate a variable, all we need is to mention the name of the command and perhaps also its key binding. If there are other problems with the current wording, please identify them.