From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: emacs and osx Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:21:01 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <85u0ma8rn6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <_D97e.1227972$35.44954684@news4.tin.it> <0qb7e.1228649$35.44974099@news4.tin.it> <87k6n6398w.fsf@xs4all.nl> <425D54AF.4000208@yahoo.com> <85y8bm8syu.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1113416619 21742 80.91.229.2 (13 Apr 2005 18:23:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:23:39 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 13 20:23:32 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DLmUi-00030V-6V for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:21:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DLm5H-0002jF-3o for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:55:27 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor.de!news.arcor.de!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: comp.emacs,gnu.emacs.help X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:QdOXL/8qcSEEjrB/2QsvIC+7+J8= Original-Lines: 60 Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Apr 2005 20:21:03 MEST Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 79e84215.newsread2.arcor-online.net Original-X-Trace: DXC=5MOK` List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:25652 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:25652 Bob Hunter writes: > David Kastrup wrote: >> Bob Hunter writes: >> >>>Lute Kamstra wrote: >> [...] >> >>>>>This "editor" needs to go on diet... >>>> >>>>We feel that it's important that you can play Tetris with Emacs. >> >>>I would rather choose to have those "extras" than being forced to >>>like them... >> Nobody forces you to like them. > > To have tetris in the main distribution is kind of forcing. I would > rather choose to have it, rather than just have it. It is not even 20k source code. And if it is loaded (which is not done unless needed), it takes maybe 4kbyte of your main memory. Put that into the proper relation with some "desktop applet" like, say, drivemount_applet2 that takes 30kB of code on the disk, and Megabytes of memory when it is run. Emacs is much less wasteful than other desktop environments. >>>I would be much happier if emacs would have a better menu (File, >>>Edit, etc.) along the lines of ... any other application. >> One has nothing to do with the other. And Emacs pretty much existed >> before "any other application" and will likely exist longer than the >> majority of all of them. So it does not make too much sense to bend >> over backwards to be more similar to short-lived applications and >> fashions. It is ok to improve Emacs, but it does not make sense to >> warp it beyond recognition. > > Oh, no, that was not my intention. Indeed, I meant a "better menu", > i.e. one that is more intuitive, and I perceive that other > applications, especially under osx, are *much* more > intuitive. Perhaps the port of emacs to osx will have the added > value of improved user experience? I very much hope so. I very, > very, very, ... , very much hope so. I don't. There is no sense in improving Emacs just on one platform. If people have sensible ideas that can be put into practice, they should also have the decency to do the work of having them integrated into the mainline. There is nothing to be gained by dozens of incompatible defaults in circulation. Those belong into the Emacs distribution. Maybe not as a system default, but at least as a customization theme. In that manner, you can get your "improved" "MacOsX" behavior on a Windows or Solaris Emacs by a single customization of their Emacs, and Windows users can make your MacOSX Emacs behave like they are accustomed to with a single customization, too. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum