Re: how to not show images?

Re: how to not show images?

[David Kastrup]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>     Ehrm, apparently you don't share my sense of humor.
>
> Ya never know... ;-)
>
>     More seriously, why would you want such a user option for Emacs?
>
> Dunno, there might be several uses.
>
> You might want to select all of the text, without picking up the
> images, to send the text to some application.

Have you actually tried doing that?  The images will not usually be
picked up.

> You might be accessing a bunch of documents remotely, and don't want
> to deal with the load time (as you mentioned).
>
> You might want to copy+paste to an application, without including
> the images.

Have you tried doing that?

> For that application, of course, a better feature to request would
> be the ability to resize all of the images in the buffer/frame,
> instead of eliminating them. Not finding such a feature, I thought
> I'd ask whether there might be a global image-display toggle.

Put a high-priority overlay with "display nil" property over the
buffer?  I have not tried it; it may do nothing or crash Emacs for all
that I know.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

    > You might want to select all of the text, without picking up the
    > images, to send the text to some application.
    
    Have you actually tried doing that?
No.

    > You might be accessing a bunch of documents remotely, and don't want
    > to deal with the load time (as you mentioned).
    >
    > You might want to copy+paste to an application, without including
    > the images.
    
    Have you tried doing that?
No
    
    > whether there might be a global image-display toggle.
    
    Put a high-priority overlay with "display nil" property over the
    buffer?  I have not tried it; it may do nothing or crash Emacs for all
    that I know.

I'll give it a try, once I figure out how to do it.

Re: how to not show images?

[Lute Kamstra]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>     Ehrm, apparently you don't share my sense of humor.
>
> Ya never know... ;-)
>
>     More seriously, why would you want such a user option for Emacs?
>
> Dunno, there might be several uses.

Personally, I think that a user option that indiscriminately turns off
the display of all images is not very useful.  It could be useful that
certain Lisp programs like W3 don't display images, but this could
probably be better implemented by those Lisp programs themselves.

> You might want to select all of the text, without picking up the images, to
> send the text to some application.

Try it: images are not picked up now.

> You might be accessing a bunch of documents remotely, and don't want to deal
> with the load time (as you mentioned).

The only example I can think of is a web browser implemented in Lisp.
But in that case not displaying images is not enough, they shouldn't be
downloaded either.  So such an options should be implemented by the
the browser itself.

> You might want to copy+paste to an application, without including the
> images.

You already mentioned that.  Try it: images aren't included.

> One trivial use I would make of this right now is for my thumbnail frames
> (http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/FisheyeWithThumbs). I shrink frames
> by changing the frame font size, but images don't shrink accordingly. For
> the speedbar frame I just turn off image display during thumbification, for
> now. (For the same reason, I remove the menu-bar, tool-bar, and scroll-bar.
> In Emacs 20, I leave the scroll bar: it shrinks nicely and is still
> functional.)
>
> For that application, of course, a better feature to request would be the
> ability to resize all of the images in the buffer/frame, instead of
> eliminating them. Not finding such a feature, I thought I'd ask whether
> there might be a global image-display toggle.

So why don't you post to emacs-devel and ask for the ability to resize
all of the images in a buffer.  Mentioning how you will use such a
feature will probably help to motivate people to implement it.

Lute.

-- 
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(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

Re: how to not show images?

[Klaus Berndl]

maybe `auto-image-file-mode' is what you want?

Klaus

On Thu, 19 May 2005, Drew Adams wrote:

>      > Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all
>  displayed
>      > buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not display them
>      > (perhaps temporarily)?
>      >
>      > I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a toggle
>  command
>      > (e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).
>  
>  
>      emacs -nw
>  
>  
>  Uh, that's a bit overkill, dontcha think?
>  
>  I want regular Emacs, with window-manager support and all the rest,
>  including image display in general. I just want to be able to toggle
>  display of images on and off. Just as one can do in a Web browser.
>  
>  What about this am I not expressing clearly? What about "user option" and
>  "toggle command" is unclear enough to elicit a response like "emacs -nw"?
>  
>  If the answer is "there is no such feature" yet, that's OK. I'll then
>  suggest to emacs-devel that we add such toggling. For now, I'm just trying
>  to see if this exists.

-- 
Klaus Berndl			mailto: klaus.berndl@sdm.de
sd&m AG				http://www.sdm.de
software design & management	
Carl-Wery-Str. 42, 81739 Muenchen, Germany
Tel +49 89 63812-392, Fax -220

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

     Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in
     all displayed buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to
     simply not display them (perhaps temporarily)?

     I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a
     toggle command (e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).

  maybe `auto-image-file-mode' is what you want?

No, I already checked that out (and the rest of library image-file.el). That
library just provides a minor mode for showing image-files graphically or
visiting them as text/binary files.

What I'm talking about is an option to not show the images that are normally
displayed in a buffer - any image in any buffer. I don't want to visit the
image files to look at their text/binary contents. I want to see nothing (or
perhaps some replacement character sequence or overlay) in place of each
image, and otherwise see the buffer they are inserted in, normally.

Web browsers let you turn off image display - you see a Web page with each
image replaced by a small proxy/placeholder symbol. That's the functionality
I'm talking about.

Re: how to not show images?

[Lute Kamstra]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>     > Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all
>     > displayed
>     > buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not display them
>     > (perhaps temporarily)?
>     >
>     > I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a toggle
>     >  command
>     > (e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).
>
>
>     emacs -nw
>
>
> Uh, that's a bit overkill, dontcha think?
>
> I want regular Emacs, with window-manager support and all the rest,
> including image display in general. I just want to be able to toggle display
> of images on and off. Just as one can do in a Web browser.
>
> What about this am I not expressing clearly? What about "user option" and
> "toggle command" is unclear enough to elicit a response like "emacs -nw"?
>
> If the answer is "there is no such feature" yet, that's OK. I'll then
> suggest to emacs-devel that we add such toggling. For now, I'm just trying
> to see if this exists.

Ehrm, apparently you don't share my sense of humor.

More seriously, why would you want such a user option for Emacs?  Web
browsers have such an option to prevent downloading of images because
that can be slow.  Not downloading images significantly speeds up the
loading of web pages while the loss of information is usually quite
minimal.

Could you give specific examples of buffers with images that you want
to get rid of?  Why do they bother you?

Lute.

-- 
(spook) => "Firefly Bosnia New World Order"
(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

    Ehrm, apparently you don't share my sense of humor.

Ya never know... ;-)

    More seriously, why would you want such a user option for Emacs?

Dunno, there might be several uses.

You might want to select all of the text, without picking up the images, to
send the text to some application.

You might be accessing a bunch of documents remotely, and don't want to deal
with the load time (as you mentioned).

You might want to copy+paste to an application, without including the
images.

One trivial use I would make of this right now is for my thumbnail frames
(http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/FisheyeWithThumbs). I shrink frames
by changing the frame font size, but images don't shrink accordingly. For
the speedbar frame I just turn off image display during thumbification, for
now. (For the same reason, I remove the menu-bar, tool-bar, and scroll-bar.
In Emacs 20, I leave the scroll bar: it shrinks nicely and is still
functional.)

For that application, of course, a better feature to request would be the
ability to resize all of the images in the buffer/frame, instead of
eliminating them. Not finding such a feature, I thought I'd ask whether
there might be a global image-display toggle.

Re: how to not show images?

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> What about this am I not expressing clearly?

the buffer(s) where you would like to see this happen.

> What about "user option" and "toggle command" is unclear enough to
> elicit a response like "emacs -nw"?

since each buffer has its major mode and each major mode can (and often
does) take complete charge of a buffer's presentation, it's difficult to
find as a concise answer as "emacs -nw" (even if that answer is a bit
"off-color", yuk yuk ;-).

thi

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

    > What about this am I not expressing clearly?

    the buffer(s) where you would like to see this happen.

I said several times: _any_ buffer where images are displayed.

1st email: "in a buffer or in all displayed buffers"
2nd email:
          What images are you talking about?
      Images displayed in an Emacs buffer.  ... all
      images in an Emacs session, or at least in a
      given Emacs buffer.
3rd email:
      turn on/off displaying of (all) images in Emacs,
      such as you can do in most Web browsers

----

    since each buffer has its major mode and each major mode can (and
    often does) take complete charge of a buffer's presentation, it's
    difficult to find as a concise answer as "emacs -nw"

Kevin's solution was concise: either (setq image-types nil) or advise
display-images-p. I haven't been able to make those work on Windows, but
they apparently work OK for him on Solaris.

Yes, without such a global feature, it could be complicated. That's why I
was asking if there was a global feature (like images-types), to not have to
deal with different types of images, different ways images might be inserted
in a buffer, different major-mode display options etc.

Re: how to not show images?

[David Kastrup]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all displayed
> buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not display them
> (perhaps temporarily)?
>
> I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a toggle command
> (e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).

What images are you talking about?

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

    > Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in
    all displayed
    > buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not display them
    > (perhaps temporarily)?
    >
    > I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a
    toggle command
    > (e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).

    What images are you talking about?

Uh, images displayed in an Emacs buffer?

For example, for speedbar, there is a user option, `speedbar-toggle-images',
that toggles display of (tree-node) images in the speedbar buffer.

I'm looking for a more generic user option that toggles display of all
images in an Emacs session, or at least in a given Emacs buffer.

Re: how to not show images?

[Kevin Rodgers]

Drew Adams wrote:
 > I'm looking for a more generic user option that toggles display of all
 > images in an Emacs session,

How about: (setq image-types nil)

Or:

(defadvice display-images-p (around disable activate)
   "Return nil."
   nil)

 > or at least in a given Emacs buffer.

(set (make-local-variable 'image-types) nil)

-- 
Kevin Rodgers

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

     > I'm looking for a more generic user option that toggles
    display of all
     > images in an Emacs session,

    How about: (setq image-types nil)
    Or:

    (defadvice display-images-p (around disable activate)
       "Return nil."
       nil)

     > or at least in a given Emacs buffer.

    (set (make-local-variable 'image-types) nil)

Those don't seem to work, for me. I'm on Windows, if that makes any
difference.

Do they work for you? If so, then that answers my question about the feature
existing, and I'll just have to figure out why they don't work for me.

Re: how to not show images?

[Kevin Rodgers]

Drew Adams wrote:
>     How about: (setq image-types nil)
>     Or:
> 
>     (defadvice display-images-p (around disable activate)
>        "Return nil."
>        nil)
> 
> Those don't seem to work, for me. I'm on Windows, if that makes any
> difference.
> 
> Do they work for you? If so, then that answers my question about the feature
> existing, and I'll just have to figure out why they don't work for me.

Yes.

-- 
Kevin Rodgers

Re: how to not show images?

[Michael Mauger]

Kevin Rodgers <ihs_4664 <at> yahoo.com> writes:

> 
> Drew Adams wrote:
> >     How about: (setq image-types nil)
> >     Or:
> > 
> >     (defadvice display-images-p (around disable activate)
> >        "Return nil."
> >        nil)
> > 
> > Those don't seem to work, for me. I'm on Windows, if that makes any
> > difference.
> > 
> > Do they work for you? If so, then that answers my question about the feature
> > existing, and I'll just have to figure out why they don't work for me.
> 
> Yes.
> 

Try:

(defadvice image-type-available-p (around disable activate)
       "Return nil."
       nil)

`image-type-available-p' is a much better place to do this.  You could add a 
(buffer local) flag to the advice to make the suppression of images conditional 
[left as an exercise for the reader].

I tried this on a w32 CVS checkout from yesterday and it works as advertised.

-- Michael

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

Michel Mauger wrote:

    (defadvice image-type-available-p (around disable activate)
           "Return nil."
           nil)
    
    `image-type-available-p' is a much better place to do this.  
    You could add a 
    (buffer local) flag to the advice to make the suppression of 
    images conditional 
    [left as an exercise for the reader].
    
    I tried this on a w32 CVS checkout from yesterday and it works 
    as advertised.

Bravo! And thanks. - Drew

Re: how to not show images?

[Mathias Dahl]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all
> displayed buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not
> display them (perhaps temporarily)?

If ther is no nice way to do this, maybe you could write a hack that
mess with the text properties at the places where an image is
displayed:

  display              (image :type jpeg :file "~/my-image.jpg" :relief 2 :margin 2)
  fontified            t
  rear-nonsticky       (display)

/Mathias

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

    > Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all
    > displayed buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not
    > display them (perhaps temporarily)?

    If ther is no nice way to do this, maybe you could write a hack that
    mess with the text properties at the places where an image is
    displayed:

      display              (image :type jpeg :file "~/my-image.jpg"
    :relief 2 :margin 2)
      fontified            t
      rear-nonsticky       (display)

Right. My question is whether there is some existing way to turn on/off
displaying of (all) images in Emacs - such as you can do in most Web
browsers.

Re: how to not show images?

[Lute Kamstra]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all displayed
> buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not display them
> (perhaps temporarily)?
>
> I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a toggle command
> (e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).

emacs -nw

Lute.

-- 
(spook) => "COSCO afsatcom espionage"
(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

RE: how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

    > Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all
displayed
    > buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not display them
    > (perhaps temporarily)?
    >
    > I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a toggle
command
    > (e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).


    emacs -nw


Uh, that's a bit overkill, dontcha think?

I want regular Emacs, with window-manager support and all the rest,
including image display in general. I just want to be able to toggle display
of images on and off. Just as one can do in a Web browser.

What about this am I not expressing clearly? What about "user option" and
"toggle command" is unclear enough to elicit a response like "emacs -nw"?

If the answer is "there is no such feature" yet, that's OK. I'll then
suggest to emacs-devel that we add such toggling. For now, I'm just trying
to see if this exists.

Re: how to not show images?

[Joe Corneli]

       > Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all displayed
       > buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not display them
       > (perhaps temporarily)?
       >
       > I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a toggle command
       > (e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).


       emacs -nw


   Uh, that's a bit overkill, dontcha think?

It is (sort of) a user option and (sort of) a toggle command.  If you
had said that you wanted to run an X-enabled Emacs, than yes, it would
have been overkill, and off topic to boot.  You could have even put

  how to not show images in X-enabled Emacs

or

  how to toggle images in X-enabled Emacs

in your subject line if you were feeling paranoid.  As it is, I
wouldn't blame your correspondent for coming up with this suggestion.


This is untested, but what happens if you redefine

display-images-p

to return nil, reload the content you were looking at, and then define
it back to normal and reload again?  You could also try

,----
| remove-images is a compiled Lisp function in `image'.
| (remove-images start end &optional buffer)
| 
| Remove images between start and end in buffer.
| Remove only images that were put in buffer with calls to `put-image'.
| buffer nil or omitted means use the current buffer.
`----

These ideas where found via apropos.  It seems to me from the apropos
results that toggling images is not directly supported.

To make your request for information still more specific, you could
run apropos to find things like `display-images-p' and `remove-images'
and then say why you don't like them (assuming that you don't).  You
could include more information about the specific sorts of buffers you
want to toggle images in, and what might happen in these buffers in
between toggle operations.  You could state your ideas or question
about a work around or ask for help with code.

Generally speaking, the more specific your messages (at whatever
level), the more likely it is that people will be able to help you.

Re: how to not show images?

[None]

There is a way, w3m-emacs does it. If I understand your question you
want an option available on w3m:

T runs the command w3m-toggle-inline-images
   which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `w3m'.
(w3m-toggle-inline-images &optional FORCE NO-CACHE)

Toggle the visibility of all images in the buffer.
If FORCE is non-nil, displaying images is forced.  If NO-CACHE is
non-nil, cached data will not be used.

alex

how to not show images?

[Drew Adams]

Is there some way to _not_ show the images in a buffer or in all displayed
buffers - that is, not to remove them, but to simply not display them
(perhaps temporarily)?

I'm looking for a user option (e.g. `show-images-flag') or a toggle command
(e.g. M-x toggle-image-display).