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* Understanding Emacs and Tabs
@ 2003-05-06 15:28 Eric Pement
  2003-05-06 17:41 ` Paul D. Smith
  2003-05-10 14:16 ` Kai Großjohann
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Eric Pement @ 2003-05-06 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw)


Hi! I've just posted a web page entitled "Understanding GNU Emacs
and Tabs", which I hope to be of help to other users who have
had trouble understanding how Emacs handles the TAB key and
TAB display. The page is here:

   http://www.student.northpark.edu/pemente/emacs_tabs.htm

If any of the experts would like to preview this page and let me
know if I've missed or misrepresented anything, I'd appreciate
it (email me privately is probably a more reliable way to reach
me, but both post-and-mail is fine with me). I do want to thank
Kai Grossjohann and others who have been helpful in explaining
things to me. Hope this helps.

--
Eric Pement

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* RE: Understanding Emacs and Tabs
@ 2003-05-16 19:24 Bingham, Jay
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Bingham, Jay @ 2003-05-16 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw)


On: Friday, May 16, 2003 Eric Pement wrote:

>"Paul D. Smith" <psmith@gnu.org> wrote in message
news:<p5n0i0vupt.fsf@lemming.engeast.baynetworks.com>...
>> You should probably point out that, regardless of the mode or other
>> settings, you can always insert an actual TAB character by first
typing
>> C-q  as in:
>> 
>>   C-q TAB

As long as you are including this you might as well also include that
M-i will also always insert an actual TAB character.

-_
J_)
C_)ingham
.    HP - NonStop Software & Services Austin - Software Quality
Assurance
.    Austin, TX
. "Language is the apparel in which your thoughts parade in public.
.  Never clothe them in vulgar and shoddy attire."     -Dr. George W.
Crane-

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <mailman.6321.1053113095.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>]
* RE: Understanding Emacs and Tabs
@ 2003-05-19 14:51 Bingham, Jay
  2003-05-19 16:37 ` Kai Großjohann
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread
From: Bingham, Jay @ 2003-05-19 14:51 UTC (permalink / raw)


On: Saturday, May 17, 2003 2:57 PM Kai Großjohann wrote:

>"Bingham, Jay" <Jay.Bingham@hp.com> writes:
>
>> As long as you are including this you might as well also include that
>> M-i will also always insert an actual TAB character.
>
>No, M-i will obey indent-tabs-mode, AFAIK.
>
>In fact, I just tested it, it seems to be the case.
>
>Also, M-i advances to the next tab stop, and if that happens to be at
>a spot that a tab character cannot reach, then M-i will use spaces
>even if indent-tabs-mode is t.

Kai,

Let me first say that I have learned a great deal about Emacs from your posts and I have a great deal of respect for you and your opinions.  However I think that your response was a bit hasty in this case.
What you say may well be true if one has indent-tabs-mode enabled.  Since I do not have indent-tabs-mode enabled in my environment and I suspect that the vast majority of the new users of Emacs, toward whom Eric's web page is aimed, will not have it enabled either, I believe that my statement will be valid in their environments as well.  I have no quick way to verify or refute your statement with regard to the operation of M-i when indent-tabs-mode is enabled, since I do not have it enabled.  Nor do I care to go to the effort to verify your statement since it appears that indent-tabs-mode is an add-in that must be intentionally required to even be available (I am running Emacs 21.1 on my PC and 20.4 on Unix based machines neither of which has it available), unless of course someone inherits it by cloning another user's .emacs.

Regards,
-_
J_)
C_)ingham
.    HP - NonStop Austin Software & Services - Software Quality Assurance
.    Austin, TX
. "Language is the apparel in which your thoughts parade in public.
.  Never clothe them in vulgar and shoddy attire."     -Dr. George W. Crane-

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* RE: Understanding Emacs and Tabs
@ 2003-05-19 19:49 Bingham, Jay
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: Bingham, Jay @ 2003-05-19 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: help-gnu-emacs

On: Monday, May 19, 2003 11:38 AM Kai Großjohann wrote:

>Oh, there's someone being very careful.  I hope I can stand a healthy
>dose of criticism :-)  Point taken, I hope.

Yes, I was trying not to start a running battle, but the comment was true, I really have learned a lot from you.

>I think you meant to say disabled.  The default for indent-tabs-mode
>is to be enabled.

I said what I meant to say, but my statement was incorrect due to a lack of comprehension on my part.

>Okay, so the full story is this: in the default Emacs configuration,
>M-i will insert a tab up to the 120th column in a line.  And this is
>very close to always.
>
>And there are two variables that come into play: the variable
>indent-tabs-mode and the variable tab-stop-list.

Now I understand.  And now that I realize that you are talking about a variable, not a mode (when I saw the -mode at the end of the name I just jumped to the conclusion that indent-tabs-mode was a function that enabled a "mode"), I see that I do indeed have indent-tabs-mode set to t in my environment and that my tab-stop-list's value is a list of numbers that ends at 120.

>Yeah, maybe I'm trying to be too exact.  Maybe an introduction doesn't
>need to be so exact.  It was just a knee-jerk reaction on my side --
>when somebody says `always' I'll answer, `but not when the full moon
>shines through the window and you're sitting with your back to the
>door'.
>
>It's probably silly.  I'm sorry.

Apology accepted, although it was not necessary and I am glad that you had a knee-jerk reaction because once again you have enlightened me.

Thanks,
-_
J_)
C_)ingham
.    HP - NonStop Austin Software & Services - Software Quality Assurance
.    Austin, TX
. "Language is the apparel in which your thoughts parade in public.
.  Never clothe them in vulgar and shoddy attire."     -Dr. George W. Crane-

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2003-05-19 19:49 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2003-05-06 15:28 Understanding Emacs and Tabs Eric Pement
2003-05-06 17:41 ` Paul D. Smith
2003-05-16 18:56   ` Eric Pement
2003-05-10 14:16 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-16 20:06   ` Eric Pement
2003-05-17 20:02     ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-17 22:27     ` Stefan Monnier
2003-05-18  8:30       ` Kai Großjohann
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-05-16 19:24 Bingham, Jay
     [not found] <mailman.6321.1053113095.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2003-05-16 19:44 ` Paul D. Smith
2003-05-16 21:35   ` Kevin Rodgers
2003-05-17 19:57 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-19 14:51 Bingham, Jay
2003-05-19 16:37 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-05-19 19:49 Bingham, Jay

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