screen, emacs and umlauts

screen, emacs and umlauts

[Christoph Schneider]

Hi everyone!

I am discovering a strange behavior of my emacs [1] when running in
screen. The umlauts don't work, i.e. I cannot type or see them. The
keys are bound to something else, like ae -> M-d, oe -> M-v, but when
working in a shell or vi which is running in screen everything works
fine. The keybindings are correct when emacs is not running in the
screen environment.

Does someone know why this happens and how to solve it?

TIA
Christoph

[1] GNU Emacs 21.2.1 (i586-suse-linux, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
    of 2002-10-14 on D186 
-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                    From is valid but not read!                         |
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Kai Großjohann]

Christoph Schneider <cs-spam@gmx.net> writes:

> I am discovering a strange behavior of my emacs [1] when running in
> screen. The umlauts don't work, i.e. I cannot type or see them. The
> keys are bound to something else, like ae -> M-d, oe -> M-v, but when
> working in a shell or vi which is running in screen everything works
> fine. The keybindings are correct when emacs is not running in the
> screen environment.

Does it help to tell Emacs about your keyboard?  C-x RET k does this.

-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Christoph Schneider]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Does it help to tell Emacs about your keyboard?  C-x RET k does this.

Now I see questionmarks (?)
-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                    From is valid but not read!                         |
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Daniel Jensen]

Christoph Schneider <cs-spam@gmx.net> writes:

> kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>
>> Does it help to tell Emacs about your keyboard?  C-x RET k does this.
>
> Now I see questionmarks (?)

And if you tell Emacs about the terminal too? C-x RET t.

-- 
Daniel Jensen
\ (format (concat "mailto:" "%s@%s.%s") "daniel" "bigwalter" "net")

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Christoph Schneider]

Daniel Jensen <daniel-news@bigwalter.net> writes:

> Christoph Schneider <cs-spam@gmx.net> writes:
> 
> > kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> >
> >> Does it help to tell Emacs about your keyboard?  C-x RET k does this.
> >
> > Now I see questionmarks (?)
> 
> And if you tell Emacs about the terminal too? C-x RET t.

Thats it! Thank you! 
But why is emacs confused, when running in screen?

Do I have to put this in .emacs to make it work in future sessions?
,----
| (set-keyboard-coding-system 'iso-latin-1)
| (set-terminal-coding-system 'iso-latin-1)
`----

Or should I use iso-latin-9 instead.

Bye
Christoph
-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                    From is valid but not read!                         |
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Kai Großjohann]

Christoph Schneider <cs-spam@gmx.net> writes:

> Thats it! Thank you! 
> But why is emacs confused, when running in screen?

I don't know.  But you could examine the output of "locale" outside
and inside of screen.  And the output of "env".

> Do I have to put this in .emacs to make it work in future sessions?
> ,----
> | (set-keyboard-coding-system 'iso-latin-1)
> | (set-terminal-coding-system 'iso-latin-1)
> `----

Yes.

> Or should I use iso-latin-9 instead.

It's a matter of taste.  Nur dein Geschmack entscheidet ;-)
(Sorry for that Pepsi commercial ``It's your taste that counts'' or
something like this -- has a similar motto been used in English
speaking countries?)

-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Daniel Jensen]

Christoph Schneider <cs-spam@gmx.net> writes:

> Daniel Jensen <daniel-news@bigwalter.net> writes:
>
>> Christoph Schneider <cs-spam@gmx.net> writes:
>> 
>> > kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>> >
>> >> Does it help to tell Emacs about your keyboard?  C-x RET k does this.
>> >
>> > Now I see questionmarks (?)
>> 
>> And if you tell Emacs about the terminal too? C-x RET t.
>
> Thats it! Thank you! 
> But why is emacs confused, when running in screen?

I don't know either. Emacs thinks screen can't handle latin-1
characters. I suppose it's a termcap/terminfo thing?

CVS Emacs tries to set this automatically by looking at the
locale, I think.

-- 
Daniel Jensen
* (format (concat "mailto:" "%s@%s.%s") "daniel" "bigwalter" "net")

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Christoph Schneider]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Christoph Schneider <cs-spam@gmx.net> writes:
> 
> I don't know.  But you could examine the output of "locale" outside
> and inside of screen.  And the output of "env".

Here is the part of env running in screen which might be the problem, as
locale from within screen and outside of screen are identical.

,----=[ env in screen ]=----
| TERM=screen
| TERMCAP=SC|screen|VT 100/ANSI X3.64 virtual terminal:\
| 	:DO=\E[%dB:LE=\E[%dD:RI=\E[%dC:UP=\E[%dA:bs:bt=\E[Z:\
| 	:cd=\E[J:ce=\E[K:cl=\E[H\E[J:cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:ct=\E[3g:\
| 	:do=^J:nd=\E[C:pt:rc=\E8:rs=\Ec:sc=\E7:st=\EH:up=\EM:\
| 	:le=^H:bl=^G:cr=^M:it#8:ho=\E[H:nw=\EE:ta=^I:is=\E)0:\
| 	:li#25:co#80:am:xn:xv:LP:sr=\EM:al=\E[L:AL=\E[%dL:\
| 	:cs=\E[%i%d;%dr:dl=\E[M:DL=\E[%dM:dc=\E[P:DC=\E[%dP:\
| 	:im=\E[4h:ei=\E[4l:mi:IC=\E[%d@:ks=\E[?1h\E=:\
| 	:ke=\E[?1l\E>:vi=\E[?25l:ve=\E[34h\E[?25h:vs=\E[34l:\
| 	:ti=\E[?1049h:te=\E[?1049l:us=\E[4m:ue=\E[24m:so=\E[3m:\
| 	:se=\E[23m:mb=\E[5m:md=\E[1m:mh=\E[2m:mr=\E[7m:\
| 	:me=\E[m:ms:\
| 	:Co#8:pa#64:AF=\E[3%dm:AB=\E[4%dm:op=\E[39;49m:AX:\
| 	:vb=\Eg:as=\E(0:ae=\E(B:\
| 	:ac=\140\140aaffggjjkkllmmnnooppqqrrssttuuvvwwxxyyzz{{||}}~~
|..--++,,hhII00:\
| 	:k0=\E[10~:k1=\EOP:k2=\EOQ:k3=\EOR:k4=\EOS:k5=\E[15~:\
| 	:k6=\E[17~:k7=\E[18~:k8=\E[19~:k9=\E[20~:k;=\E[21~:\
| 	:F1=\E[23~:F2=\E[24~:F3=\E[25~:F4=\E[26~:F5=\E[28~:\
| 	:F6=\E[29~:F7=\E[31~:F8=\E[32~:F9=\E[33~:FA=\E[34~:kb=\x7f:\
| 	:K2=\E[G:kB=\E[Z:kh=\E[1~:@1=\E[1~:kH=\E[4~:@7=\E[4~:\
| 	:kN=\E[6~:kP=\E[5~:kI=\E[2~:kD=\E[3~:ku=\EOA:kd=\EOB:\
| 	:kr=\EOC:kl=\EOD:
`----

What ever that means.

It looks like Daniel [1] is right, as TERMCAP is not set outside of
screen.

Bye
Christoph

[1] <86d6kunl43.fsf@bigwalter.net>
-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                    From is valid but not read!                         |
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'

OT: Pepsi (was Re: screen, emacs and umlauts)

[Mark A. Hershberger]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> It's a matter of taste.  Nur dein Geschmack entscheidet ;-)
> (Sorry for that Pepsi commercial ``It's your taste that counts'' or
> something like this -- has a similar motto been used in English
> speaking countries?)

Here, Diet Coke used "Just for the taste of it", but I don't
recall anything similar to "It's your taste".

Mark.

-- 
You are a mystery as deep as the sea; the more I search, the more
I find, and the more I find the more I search for you.
	    -- St. Catherine of Siena

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Stefan Monnier]

> Here is the part of env running in screen which might be the problem, as
> locale from within screen and outside of screen are identical.

Wait, are you actually saying that the umlauts are displayed properly
in `emacs -nw' outside of screen but not in `emacs -nw' inside of screen ?

I know that Emacs-21.2 does not obey the locale w.r.t the keyboard coding
system, but for the terminal coding system (i.e. what determines how
things are displayed), it definitely does.


        Stefan

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Kai Großjohann]

Daniel Jensen <daniel-news@bigwalter.net> writes:

> CVS Emacs tries to set this automatically by looking at the
> locale, I think.

Emacs 21.2 also looks at the locale, I'm not aware of differences
between 21.2 and the CVS version at the moment.

Emacs 20 required the string iso-8859-1 or iso8859_1 or similar to be
in the name of the locale.
-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Christoph Schneider]

"Stefan Monnier" <monnier+gnu.emacs.help/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> writes:

> Wait, are you actually saying that the umlauts are displayed properly
> in `emacs -nw' outside of screen but not in `emacs -nw' inside of screen ?

Yes, and it doesn't make a diffrence if emacs is started with -nw or
without it. Furthermore I cannot write umlauts, till I set the keyboard
coding system.

> I know that Emacs-21.2 does not obey the locale w.r.t the keyboard coding
> system, but for the terminal coding system (i.e. what determines how
> things are displayed), it definitely does.

Maybe the problem is the TERMCAP set in the environment of screen, but I
don't know what that entry means and what it is used for.

Bye
Christoph

PS: I'm sorry for hitting r instead of f the last time. It was late ;-)
-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                    From is valid but not read!                         |
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Wait, are you actually saying that the umlauts are displayed properly
>> in `emacs -nw' outside of screen but not in `emacs -nw' inside of screen ?
> Yes, and it doesn't make a diffrence if emacs is started with -nw or
> without it. Furthermore I cannot write umlauts, till I set the keyboard
> coding system.

Hmmm... that's odd.
Could you show us the output of `printenv' inside screen
and outside of it (or the diff between the two) ?

> Maybe the problem is the TERMCAP set in the environment of screen, but I
> don't know what that entry means and what it is used for.

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that's the case.


        Stefan

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Christoph Schneider]

"Stefan Monnier" <monnier+gnu.emacs.help/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> writes:

> Hmmm... that's odd.
> Could you show us the output of `printenv' inside screen
> and outside of it (or the diff between the two) ?

Here ist comes (except for the hostname an IP-address).

,----[ printenv within screen ]
| LESSKEY=/etc/lesskey.bin
| MANPATH=/usr/local/man:/usr/share/man:/usr/X11R6/man:/usr/man
| INFODIR=/usr/local/info:/usr/share/info:/usr/info
| NNTPSERVER=news.uni-mainz.de
| XKEYSYMDB=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
| SHELL=/bin/bash
| TERM=screen
| PROFILEREAD=true
| SSH_CLIENT=local ip address
| SSH_TTY=/dev/pts/1
| LC_ALL=POSIX
| USER=cs
| JRE_HOME=/usr/lib/java/jre
| LS_COLORS=no=00:fi=00:di=01;34:ln=01:pi=40;33:so=01;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:ex=01;31:*.cmd=01;32:*.exe=01;32:*.com=01;32:*.btm=01;32:*.bat=01;32:*.tar=00;31:*.tgz=00;31:*.rpm=00;31:*.arj=00;31:*.taz=00;31:*.lzh=00;31:*.zip=00;31:*.z=00;31:*.Z=00;31:*.gz=00;31:*.bz2=00;31:*.jpg=01;35:*.gif=01;35:*.bmp=01;35:*.xbm=01;35:*.xpm=01;35:*.tif=01;35:*.png=01;35:
| XNLSPATH=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/nls
| HOSTTYPE=i386
| TERMCAP=SC|screen|VT 100/ANSI X3.64 virtual terminal:\
| 	:DO=\E[%dB:LE=\E[%dD:RI=\E[%dC:UP=\E[%dA:bs:bt=\E[Z:\
| 	:cd=\E[J:ce=\E[K:cl=\E[H\E[J:cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:ct=\E[3g:\
| 	:do=^J:nd=\E[C:pt:rc=\E8:rs=\Ec:sc=\E7:st=\EH:up=\EM:\
| 	:le=^H:bl=^G:cr=^M:it#8:ho=\E[H:nw=\EE:ta=^I:is=\E)0:\
| 	:li#25:co#80:am:xn:xv:LP:sr=\EM:al=\E[L:AL=\E[%dL:\
| 	:cs=\E[%i%d;%dr:dl=\E[M:DL=\E[%dM:dc=\E[P:DC=\E[%dP:\
| 	:im=\E[4h:ei=\E[4l:mi:IC=\E[%d@:ks=\E[?1h\E=:\
| 	:ke=\E[?1l\E>:vi=\E[?25l:ve=\E[34h\E[?25h:vs=\E[34l:\
| 	:ti=\E[?1049h:te=\E[?1049l:us=\E[4m:ue=\E[24m:so=\E[3m:\
| 	:se=\E[23m:mb=\E[5m:md=\E[1m:mh=\E[2m:mr=\E[7m:\
| 	:me=\E[m:ms:\
| 	:Co#8:pa#64:AF=\E[3%dm:AB=\E[4%dm:op=\E[39;49m:AX:\
| 	:vb=\Eg:as=\E(0:ae=\E(B:\
| 	:ac=\140\140aaffggjjkkllmmnnooppqqrrssttuuvvwwxxyyzz{{||}}~~..--++,,hhII00:\
| 	:k0=\E[10~:k1=\EOP:k2=\EOQ:k3=\EOR:k4=\EOS:k5=\E[15~:\
| 	:k6=\E[17~:k7=\E[18~:k8=\E[19~:k9=\E[20~:k;=\E[21~:\
| 	:F1=\E[23~:F2=\E[24~:F3=\E[25~:F4=\E[26~:F5=\E[28~:\
| 	:F6=\E[29~:F7=\E[31~:F8=\E[32~:F9=\E[33~:FA=\E[34~:kb=\x7f:\
| 	:K2=\E[G:kB=\E[Z:kh=\E[1~:@1=\E[1~:kH=\E[4~:@7=\E[4~:\
| 	:kN=\E[6~:kP=\E[5~:kI=\E[2~:kD=\E[3~:ku=\EOA:kd=\EOB:\
| 	:kr=\EOC:kl=\EOD:
| PAGER=less
| MINICOM=-c on
| PATH=/home/cs/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/bin:/usr/games:/opt/kde3/bin:/usr/lib/java/jre/bin:/usr/lib/qt2/bin
| MAIL=/var/mail/cs
| CPU=i686
| STY=14362.pts-1.hostname
| JAVA_BINDIR=/usr/lib/java/jre/bin
| _=/usr/bin/printenv
| LC_COLLATE=POSIX
| INPUTRC=/etc/inputrc
| PWD=/home/cs
| JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/java/jre
| EDITOR=emacsclient
| LANG=de_DE@euro
| TEXINPUTS=:/home/cs/.TeX:/usr/share/doc/.TeX:/usr/doc/.TeX
| HOME=/home/cs
| SHLVL=3
| OSTYPE=linux
| LESS_ADVANCED_PREPROCESSOR=no
| no_proxy=localhost
| LS_OPTIONS=-N --color=tty -T 0
| WINDOWMANAGER=/usr/X11R6/bin/kde
| OPERADIR=/usr/share/opera
| LOGNAME=cs
| MACHTYPE=i686-suse-linux
| LESS=-M -I
| WINDOW=0
| LESSOPEN=lessopen.sh %s
| INFOPATH=/usr/local/info:/usr/share/info:/usr/info
| LESSCLOSE=lessclose.sh %s %s
| COLORTERM=1
| JAVA_ROOT=/usr/lib/java
`----

,----[ printenv outside of screen ]
| LESSKEY=/etc/lesskey.bin
| NNTPSERVER=news.uni-mainz.de
| INFODIR=/usr/local/info:/usr/share/info:/usr/info
| MANPATH=/usr/local/man:/usr/share/man:/usr/X11R6/man:/usr/man
| XKEYSYMDB=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB
| TERM=linux
| SHELL=/bin/bash
| PROFILEREAD=true
| SSH_CLIENT=local ip address
| QTDIR=/usr/lib/qt3
| SSH_TTY=/dev/pts/5
| LC_ALL=POSIX
| JRE_HOME=/usr/lib/java/jre
| USER=cs
| LS_COLORS=no=00:fi=00:di=01;34:ln=01:pi=40;33:so=01;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:ex=01;31:*.cmd=01;32:*.exe=01;32:*.com=01;32:*.btm=01;32:*.bat=01;32:*.tar=00;31:*.tgz=00;31:*.rpm=00;31:*.arj=00;31:*.taz=00;31:*.lzh=00;31:*.zip=00;31:*.z=00;31:*.Z=00;31:*.gz=00;31:*.bz2=00;31:*.jpg=01;35:*.gif=01;35:*.bmp=01;35:*.xbm=01;35:*.xpm=01;35:*.tif=01;35:*.png=01;35:
| XNLSPATH=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/nls
| HOSTTYPE=i386
| PAGER=less
| MINICOM=-c on
| MAIL=/var/mail/cs
| PATH=/home/cs/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/bin:/usr/games:/opt/kde3/bin:/usr/lib/java/jre/bin:/usr/lib/qt3/bin
| CPU=i686
| JAVA_BINDIR=/usr/lib/java/jre/bin
| LC_COLLATE=POSIX
| INPUTRC=/etc/inputrc
| PWD=/home/cs
| JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/java/jre
| EDITOR=emacsclient
| LANG=de_DE@euro
| PS1=\u@\h:\w> 
| PS2=> 
| TEXINPUTS=:/home/cs/.TeX:/usr/share/doc/.TeX:/usr/doc/.TeX
| SHLVL=1
| HOME=/home/cs
| LESS_ADVANCED_PREPROCESSOR=no
| OSTYPE=linux
| LS_OPTIONS=-N --color=tty -T 0
| no_proxy=localhost
| WINDOWMANAGER=/usr/X11R6/bin/kde
| OPERADIR=/usr/share/opera
| LESS=-M -I
| MACHTYPE=i686-suse-linux
| LOGNAME=cs
| LESSOPEN=lessopen.sh %s
| INFOPATH=/usr/local/info:/usr/share/info:/usr/info
| LESSCLOSE=lessclose.sh %s %s
| JAVA_ROOT=/usr/lib/java
| COLORTERM=1
| _=/usr/bin/printenv
`----

-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                    From is valid but not read!                         |
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'

Re: screen, emacs and umlauts

[Daniel Jensen]

kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Daniel Jensen <daniel-news@bigwalter.net> writes:
>
>> CVS Emacs tries to set this automatically by looking at the
>> locale, I think.
>
> Emacs 21.2 also looks at the locale, I'm not aware of differences
> between 21.2 and the CVS version at the moment.

I don't know what the actual differences are, but I noticed that the
NEWS file mentions that Emacs uses the locale to change some
settings. I also noticed that the problems described by the OP
appeared in 21.2 but not in 21.3.

-- 
Daniel Jensen
* (format (concat "mailto:" "%s@%s.%s") "daniel" "bigwalter" "net")