* Re: Inputting UTF8 in Emacs
2023-12-16 15:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-12-16 16:19 ` Stephen Berman
2023-12-16 16:49 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-12-16 16:39 ` uzibalqa
2023-12-16 17:22 ` uzibalqa
2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Berman @ 2023-12-16 16:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:20:31 +0200 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 14:58:35 +0000
>> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
>> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>>
>> > > Although I got it to work, can things be simplified further. For instance,
>> > > having a command that moves from one character set to another, showing the
>> > > same as is shown by the use of "TAB TAB".
>> >
>> >
>> > This already exists: use M-<DOWN> and M-<UP> arrow keys.
>>
>> `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>' takes a long time to load and display.
>
> No, not `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>'. I meant this:
>
> C-x 8 RET LOG TAB TAB M-<DOWN>
>
>> All the UTF8 characters get displayed in a long list with M-<DOWN>
>> and M-<UP> moving a character at a time.
>>
>> My interest is in displaying a page (e.g. a table) at a time with just the
>> UTF8 characters of a particular set. And shifting one set at a time.
>>
>> To have an idea, consider the case if `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>' shows the first
>> character set (e.g. Arrows). Then pressing "M-<DOWN>" again shows the next
>> character set (e.g. Math Operators), and so on. Makes browsing the UTF8
>> characters much faster and you are moving by Character Set rather them by
>> Character Glyph.
>
> This is not what "C-x 8 RET" is for. You want a command that shows
> Unicode characters by Unicode blocks, and then allows inserting some
> character. I'm sure someone has already written something like that,
> so maybe search the various ELPAs.
I know of these two:
https://github.com/ellerh/ubb
https://github.com/lateau/charmap (also available from MELPA)
Steve Berman
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Inputting UTF8 in Emacs
2023-12-16 15:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-16 16:19 ` Stephen Berman
@ 2023-12-16 16:39 ` uzibalqa
2023-12-16 17:22 ` uzibalqa
2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: uzibalqa @ 2023-12-16 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
On Sunday, December 17th, 2023 at 3:20 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 14:58:35 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> >
> > > > Although I got it to work, can things be simplified further. For instance,
> > > > having a command that moves from one character set to another, showing the
> > > > same as is shown by the use of "TAB TAB".
> > >
> > > This already exists: use M-<DOWN> and M-<UP> arrow keys.
> >
> > `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>' takes a long time to load and display.
>
>
> No, not `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>'. I meant this:
>
>
> C-x 8 RET LOG TAB TAB M-<DOWN>
>
> > All the UTF8 characters get displayed in a long list with M-<DOWN>
> > and M-<UP> moving a character at a time.
> >
> > My interest is in displaying a page (e.g. a table) at a time with just the
> > UTF8 characters of a particular set. And shifting one set at a time.
> >
> > To have an idea, consider the case if `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>' shows the first
> > character set (e.g. Arrows). Then pressing "M-<DOWN>" again shows the next
> > character set (e.g. Math Operators), and so on. Makes browsing the UTF8
> > characters much faster and you are moving by Character Set rather them by
> > Character Glyph.
>
>
> This is not what "C-x 8 RET" is for. You want a command that shows
> Unicode characters by Unicode blocks, and then allows inserting some
> character. I'm sure someone has already written something like that,
> so maybe search the various ELPAs.
Yes, stepping through entire Unicode blocks is what I would like to have.
And with the display looking like the usual emacs display when using
C-x 8 RET LOG TAB TAB
Which shows both the glyph and the name in table form.
Is this something difficult to code ? Emacs could have some added
functionality that could help making such an implementation.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Inputting UTF8 in Emacs
2023-12-16 15:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-16 16:19 ` Stephen Berman
2023-12-16 16:39 ` uzibalqa
@ 2023-12-16 17:22 ` uzibalqa
2023-12-16 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: uzibalqa @ 2023-12-16 17:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
On Sunday, December 17th, 2023 at 3:20 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 14:58:35 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> >
> > > > Although I got it to work, can things be simplified further. For instance,
> > > > having a command that moves from one character set to another, showing the
> > > > same as is shown by the use of "TAB TAB".
> > >
> > > This already exists: use M-<DOWN> and M-<UP> arrow keys.
> >
> > `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>' takes a long time to load and display.
>
>
> No, not `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>'. I meant this:
>
>
> C-x 8 RET LOG TAB TAB M-<DOWN>
>
> > All the UTF8 characters get displayed in a long list with M-<DOWN>
> > and M-<UP> moving a character at a time.
> >
> > My interest is in displaying a page (e.g. a table) at a time with just the
> > UTF8 characters of a particular set. And shifting one set at a time.
> >
> > To have an idea, consider the case if `C-x 8 RET M-<DOWN>' shows the first
> > character set (e.g. Arrows). Then pressing "M-<DOWN>" again shows the next
> > character set (e.g. Math Operators), and so on. Makes browsing the UTF8
> > characters much faster and you are moving by Character Set rather them by
> > Character Glyph.
>
>
> This is not what "C-x 8 RET" is for. You want a command that shows
> Unicode characters by Unicode blocks, and then allows inserting some
> character. I'm sure someone has already written something like that,
> so maybe search the various ELPAs.
Eli. Could we have a list of Unicode Black Names, so one could do
C-x 8 RET BLOCK-NAME TAB TAB M-<DOWN>
In the last few years, there have been many users who would like to
easily insert UTF8 characters, even though this has not been very
well received by some developers who have been in the field for a long
time (e.g. regarding Emojis where some prefer text-based communication).
For people in mathematics like myself, easily inserting UTF8 characters
would be considered a valuable innovation.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Inputting UTF8 in Emacs
2023-12-16 17:22 ` uzibalqa
@ 2023-12-16 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-16 18:06 ` uzibalqa
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-12-16 17:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>
> > This is not what "C-x 8 RET" is for. You want a command that shows
> > Unicode characters by Unicode blocks, and then allows inserting some
> > character. I'm sure someone has already written something like that,
> > so maybe search the various ELPAs.
>
> Eli. Could we have a list of Unicode Black Names, so one could do
>
> C-x 8 RET BLOCK-NAME TAB TAB M-<DOWN>
We could have anything, but someone will have to write the code, and
we will then need to decide that the addition is important enough to
have it bundled with Emacs (as opposed to having a separate package
that interested users will need to install). AFAIR, currently Emacs
doesn't even know the names of the blocks, because it is not important
for supporting Unicode characters in Emacs.
> In the last few years, there have been many users who would like to
> easily insert UTF8 characters, even though this has not been very
> well received by some developers who have been in the field for a long
> time (e.g. regarding Emojis where some prefer text-based communication).
For Emoji, we do have a feature that allows to display and select the
one you need: "M-x emoji-list". That's because Emoji are pictures,
and their textual description is much harder to understand than to
pick up the picture you want.
> For people in mathematics like myself, easily inserting UTF8 characters
> would be considered a valuable innovation.
If you are interested in mathematical symbols, then this should do:
C-x 8 RET mathematical TAB TAB
then keep hitting TAB to scroll through the list, or use M-<DOWN> and
M-<UP> keys.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Inputting UTF8 in Emacs
2023-12-16 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-12-16 18:06 ` uzibalqa
2023-12-16 18:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: uzibalqa @ 2023-12-16 18:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
On Sunday, December 17th, 2023 at 5:43 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> >
> > > This is not what "C-x 8 RET" is for. You want a command that shows
> > > Unicode characters by Unicode blocks, and then allows inserting some
> > > character. I'm sure someone has already written something like that,
> > > so maybe search the various ELPAs.
> >
> > Eli. Could we have a list of Unicode Black Names, so one could do
> >
> > C-x 8 RET BLOCK-NAME TAB TAB M-<DOWN>
>
>
> We could have anything, but someone will have to write the code, and
> we will then need to decide that the addition is important enough to
> have it bundled with Emacs (as opposed to having a separate package
> that interested users will need to install). AFAIR, currently Emacs
> doesn't even know the names of the blocks, because it is not important
> for supporting Unicode characters in Emacs.
It would be easier for insertions when knowing the name is not straightforward.
I can work on making the block names if I get some hints on what has to be done.
Or perhaps a schematic I can follow. Does this require lot of elisp experience?
> > In the last few years, there have been many users who would like to
> > easily insert UTF8 characters, even though this has not been very
> > well received by some developers who have been in the field for a long
> > time (e.g. regarding Emojis where some prefer text-based communication).
>
>
> For Emoji, we do have a feature that allows to display and select the
> one you need: "M-x emoji-list". That's because Emoji are pictures,
> and their textual description is much harder to understand than to
> pick up the picture you want.
>
> > For people in mathematics like myself, easily inserting UTF8 characters
> > would be considered a valuable innovation.
>
>
> If you are interested in mathematical symbols, then this should do:
>
> C-x 8 RET mathematical TAB TAB
>
> then keep hitting TAB to scroll through the list, or use M-<DOWN> and
>
> M-<UP> keys.
Mathematical Symbols function like Emojis, it is easier to pick up the
mathematical symbol you want rather than using their textual description.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Inputting UTF8 in Emacs
2023-12-16 18:06 ` uzibalqa
@ 2023-12-16 18:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-16 20:16 ` uzibalqa
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-12-16 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 18:06:16 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>
> > We could have anything, but someone will have to write the code, and
> > we will then need to decide that the addition is important enough to
> > have it bundled with Emacs (as opposed to having a separate package
> > that interested users will need to install). AFAIR, currently Emacs
> > doesn't even know the names of the blocks, because it is not important
> > for supporting Unicode characters in Emacs.
>
> It would be easier for insertions when knowing the name is not straightforward.
>
> I can work on making the block names if I get some hints on what has to be done.
> Or perhaps a schematic I can follow. Does this require lot of elisp experience?
I don't know what has to be done, it depends on what kind of feature
and UI you have in mind.
> > If you are interested in mathematical symbols, then this should do:
> >
> > C-x 8 RET mathematical TAB TAB
> >
> > then keep hitting TAB to scroll through the list, or use M-<DOWN> and
> >
> > M-<UP> keys.
>
> Mathematical Symbols function like Emojis, it is easier to pick up the
> mathematical symbol you want rather than using their textual description.
I don't agree. What's unclear about a name such as "MATHEMATICAL BOLD
CAPITAL A"?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Inputting UTF8 in Emacs
2023-12-16 18:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-12-16 20:16 ` uzibalqa
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: uzibalqa @ 2023-12-16 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
On Sunday, December 17th, 2023 at 6:38 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 18:06:16 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> >
> > > We could have anything, but someone will have to write the code, and
> > > we will then need to decide that the addition is important enough to
> > > have it bundled with Emacs (as opposed to having a separate package
> > > that interested users will need to install). AFAIR, currently Emacs
> > > doesn't even know the names of the blocks, because it is not important
> > > for supporting Unicode characters in Emacs.
> >
> > It would be easier for insertions when knowing the name is not straightforward.
> >
> > I can work on making the block names if I get some hints on what has to be done.
> > Or perhaps a schematic I can follow. Does this require lot of elisp experience?
>
>
> I don't know what has to be done, it depends on what kind of feature
> and UI you have in mind.
Something similar to doing
C-x 8 RET mathematical TAB TAB
but for blocks. Where a table gets displayed and one selects
with M-Up and M-Down, showing both the symbol and name.
A problem with
C-x 8 RET mathematical TAB TAB
is that it only shows letters, and does not include mathematical operators.
Just categorising with "mathematical" is still too broad.
> > > If you are interested in mathematical symbols, then this should do:
> > >
> > > C-x 8 RET mathematical TAB TAB
> > >
> > > then keep hitting TAB to scroll through the list, or use M-<DOWN> and
> > >
> > > M-<UP> keys.
> >
> > Mathematical Symbols function like Emojis, it is easier to pick up the
> > mathematical symbol you want rather than using their textual description.
>
>
> I don't agree. What's unclear about a name such as "MATHEMATICAL BOLD
> CAPITAL A"?
I never want NEITHER GREATER-THAN NOR EQUIVALENT TO
And much rather select the symbol directly. Emacs only supporting names
without showing the symbol is very annoying and time consuming.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread