From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 19:37:21 +0300 Message-ID: <83sib0juwu.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83h9rnp0yy.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3qnl70z.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <837fsfm7gq.fsf@gnu.org> <991d9b3f-e2f4-4977-9e78-99d39b04ede5@default> <53fc8fd4-2a3e-4937-bc17-6bf6d5bfff5a@googlegroups.com> <0d865b33-6751-4958-b61b-e0f2b3298a20@googlegroups.com> <83egmllmf0.fsf@gnu.org> <20150513074735.GB7600@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431535097 1959 80.91.229.3 (13 May 2015 16:38:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 16:38:17 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 13 18:38:08 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YsZfb-0006Z7-Cy for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 18:38:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50128 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsZfa-00006e-Qr for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:38:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsZfK-000061-Rg for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:37:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsZfF-0005uz-DJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:37:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout25.012.net.il ([80.179.55.181]:34707) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YsZfF-0005uj-4V for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 12:37:45 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout25.012.net.il by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NOA00100R6X3K00@mtaout25.012.net.il> for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 19:33:14 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NOA001RERBD7V00@mtaout25.012.net.il> for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2015 19:33:14 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <20150513074735.GB7600@tuxteam.de> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.181 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104444 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:47:35 +0200 > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > From: > > > I would start by typing "i directory TAB", then see "directory > > listing" there, and select it. And there, lo and behold, I'd see > > this: > > Really good example you got there It's not me, I just worked the example suggested by Rusi. > 1. I've been using Emacs for quite a while. I'm perhaps atypical > in that I learn in leaps and bounds and not very systematically. > It took me several years (three? four?) to learn about "i". > Before, I used "s". I shouldn't have been allowed to *touch* > Emacs without knowing about Info's "i" (see below for some > thoughts on that) Should probably be added to the end of the tutorial. > 2. I enter "i folder TAB" and get no entries. Hmmm. Please make a bug report in any such case. > Ad 1: I think an intro should blaze a wide track collecting the > indispensable tools to get up and running (and only hinting at > alternatives). I don't think this is practical, for at least 2 reasons: . the number of indispensable tools is very large . the set of such tools is highly dependent on what you want to do in Emacs > Which are the "indispensable tools" is very much a matter of taste > and of "current fashion": it will vary over users and time. Exactly, so it is impractical to have them in an introductory text. > Heck, I'm an old fart and *even on vi* (which I spell vim) I don't > "HJKL" but use the cursor keys And yet the Vim tutorial starts with description of cursor motion.