* Changing site-lisp without installing it
@ 2023-08-02 21:14 Spencer Baugh
2023-08-03 0:25 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-03 4:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Spencer Baugh @ 2023-08-02 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw
To: help-gnu-emacs
I want to start using site-lisp at my site. But I'm not sure how to
hack on changed versions of the site-lisp, without installing it.
What would be ideal for me is this:
- There is a normal, installed Emacs, with a site-lisp directory. My
users run this and get the installed site-lisp directory. All normal.
- I run this same Emacs binary in some way, I don't know how, to make it
use a replacement site-lisp directory, instead of the installed one,
so that I can hack on the site-lisp, without having to build a new
Emacs or change the actual installed site-lisp directory.
Now that I say all this, I guess the obvious thing to do is simply pass
--no-site-lisp --directory my/local/changed/site-lisp
and then hack away.
But will that behave correctly? Are there any footguns there?
(Does anyone actually use site-lisp? It seems a little under-explored,
but I think it will be really useful at my site, so that people can
easily run "emacs -q" to get an emacs with only the site configuration
which should help with debugging their problems)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Changing site-lisp without installing it
2023-08-02 21:14 Changing site-lisp without installing it Spencer Baugh
@ 2023-08-03 0:25 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-03 4:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2023-08-03 0:25 UTC (permalink / raw
To: help-gnu-emacs
Spencer Baugh wrote:
> I want to start using site-lisp at my site.
site = multi-user computer system, settings in site-lisp will
be shared across users.
> What would be ideal for me is this:
>
> - There is a normal, installed Emacs, with a site-lisp
> directory. My users run this and get the installed
> site-lisp directory. All normal.
>
> - I run this same Emacs binary in some way, I don't know
> how, to make it use a replacement site-lisp directory,
> instead of the installed one, so that I can hack on the
> site-lisp, without having to build a new Emacs or change
> the actual installed site-lisp directory.
>
> Now that I say all this, I guess the obvious thing to do is simply pass
>
> --no-site-lisp --directory my/local/changed/site-lisp
>
> and then hack away.
>
> But will that behave correctly? Are there any footguns there?
Many, instead just add a file to the original path with
whatever settings you wish to enforce across the realm ...
> (Does anyone actually use site-lisp? It seems a little
> under-explored [...]
Collective settings, I don't think that idea is so useful.
Whose .emacs are we gonna base it on, the "site" boss?
Maybe one can share other stuff that makes more sense ...
--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Changing site-lisp without installing it
2023-08-02 21:14 Changing site-lisp without installing it Spencer Baugh
2023-08-03 0:25 ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2023-08-03 4:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-03 15:58 ` Spencer Baugh
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-08-03 4:43 UTC (permalink / raw
To: help-gnu-emacs
> From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@janestreet.com>
> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2023 17:14:51 -0400
>
>
> I want to start using site-lisp at my site. But I'm not sure how to
> hack on changed versions of the site-lisp, without installing it.
>
> What would be ideal for me is this:
>
> - There is a normal, installed Emacs, with a site-lisp directory. My
> users run this and get the installed site-lisp directory. All normal.
>
> - I run this same Emacs binary in some way, I don't know how, to make it
> use a replacement site-lisp directory, instead of the installed one,
> so that I can hack on the site-lisp, without having to build a new
> Emacs or change the actual installed site-lisp directory.
>
> Now that I say all this, I guess the obvious thing to do is simply pass
>
> --no-site-lisp --directory my/local/changed/site-lisp
>
> and then hack away.
>
> But will that behave correctly? Are there any footguns there?
>
> (Does anyone actually use site-lisp? It seems a little under-explored,
> but I think it will be really useful at my site, so that people can
> easily run "emacs -q" to get an emacs with only the site configuration
> which should help with debugging their problems)
I use site-lisp, if by that you mean the site-lisp directory that is
put on load-path.
I don't really understand what is it that you are trying to
accomplish, but one aspect that might be relevant is that there are 2
site-lisp: one is specific to the Emacs version, the other one is not
(so is visible to all Emacs versions).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Changing site-lisp without installing it
2023-08-03 4:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-08-03 15:58 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-08-03 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-03 16:10 ` Emanuel Berg
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Spencer Baugh @ 2023-08-03 15:58 UTC (permalink / raw
To: help-gnu-emacs
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@janestreet.com>
>> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2023 17:14:51 -0400
>>
>>
>> I want to start using site-lisp at my site. But I'm not sure how to
>> hack on changed versions of the site-lisp, without installing it.
>>
>> What would be ideal for me is this:
>>
>> - There is a normal, installed Emacs, with a site-lisp directory. My
>> users run this and get the installed site-lisp directory. All normal.
>>
>> - I run this same Emacs binary in some way, I don't know how, to make it
>> use a replacement site-lisp directory, instead of the installed one,
>> so that I can hack on the site-lisp, without having to build a new
>> Emacs or change the actual installed site-lisp directory.
>>
>> Now that I say all this, I guess the obvious thing to do is simply pass
>>
>> --no-site-lisp --directory my/local/changed/site-lisp
>>
>> and then hack away.
>>
>> But will that behave correctly? Are there any footguns there?
>>
>> (Does anyone actually use site-lisp? It seems a little under-explored,
>> but I think it will be really useful at my site, so that people can
>> easily run "emacs -q" to get an emacs with only the site configuration
>> which should help with debugging their problems)
>
> I use site-lisp, if by that you mean the site-lisp directory that is
> put on load-path.
The system-wide one in /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp? Don't you need root
to change that one? Isn't that inconvenient?
That's the one I mean, anyway.
> I don't really understand what is it that you are trying to
> accomplish, but one aspect that might be relevant is that there are 2
> site-lisp: one is specific to the Emacs version, the other one is not
> (so is visible to all Emacs versions).
Ah, yes, that is relevant. But I expect to compile a new Emacs binary
with a different --prefix each time I change site-lisp anyway, so each
site-lisp will be specific to an individual Emacs binary.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Changing site-lisp without installing it
2023-08-03 15:58 ` Spencer Baugh
@ 2023-08-03 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-03 18:46 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-08-03 16:10 ` Emanuel Berg
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-08-03 16:05 UTC (permalink / raw
To: help-gnu-emacs
> From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@janestreet.com>
> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 11:58:14 -0400
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > I use site-lisp, if by that you mean the site-lisp directory that is
> > put on load-path.
>
> The system-wide one in /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp?
Yes.
> Don't you need root to change that one? Isn't that inconvenient?
On my systems, I have the root privileges, so this isn't inconvenient.
Why don't you on your systems? I understand that you are the de-facto
administrator, since you set up things for your users?
Anyway, what's inconvenient in using the system-wide site-lisp? If
access rights is the issue, Tramp should solve that cleanly, I think.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Changing site-lisp without installing it
2023-08-03 15:58 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-08-03 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-08-03 16:10 ` Emanuel Berg
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2023-08-03 16:10 UTC (permalink / raw
To: help-gnu-emacs
Spencer Baugh wrote:
>> I use site-lisp, if by that you mean the site-lisp
>> directory that is put on load-path.
>
> The system-wide one in /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp? Don't you
> need root to change that one? Isn't that inconvenient?
Yes, and this is why most users keep their configuration in
.emacs in their $HOME paths :)
--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Changing site-lisp without installing it
2023-08-03 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-08-03 18:46 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-08-04 5:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Spencer Baugh @ 2023-08-03 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw
To: help-gnu-emacs
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@janestreet.com>
>> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 11:58:14 -0400
>>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> > I use site-lisp, if by that you mean the site-lisp directory that is
>> > put on load-path.
>>
>> The system-wide one in /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp?
>
> Yes.
>
>> Don't you need root to change that one? Isn't that inconvenient?
>
> On my systems, I have the root privileges, so this isn't inconvenient.
> Why don't you on your systems? I understand that you are the de-facto
> administrator, since you set up things for your users?
I do, yes.
> Anyway, what's inconvenient in using the system-wide site-lisp? If
> access rights is the issue, Tramp should solve that cleanly, I think.
It just seems less convenient to have to use TRAMP to edit the files.
Doing everything in ~/.emacs.d avoids the access rights issue; it's not
shared, but that's fine since there's only one user in your case (I
assume?). For my personal configuration on my personal machines, I
generally try to configure things in ~ as much as possible, since all
system-wide configuration has the hassle of access rights.
Thanks for sharing your workflow though, it's interesting to hear that
site-lisp works well for this.
Do you install packages into site-lisp, too? Or, what in general do you
put in site-lisp?
Do you use site-start.el? default.el? I definitely hope to use those,
too.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Changing site-lisp without installing it
2023-08-03 18:46 ` Spencer Baugh
@ 2023-08-04 5:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-08-04 5:19 UTC (permalink / raw
To: help-gnu-emacs
> From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@janestreet.com>
> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 14:46:00 -0400
>
> Do you install packages into site-lisp, too? Or, what in general do you
> put in site-lisp?
Yes, I install packages in site-lisp. That's basically all I use it
for.
> Do you use site-start.el? default.el? I definitely hope to use those,
> too.
None of these here, just the good old ~/.emacs.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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2023-08-02 21:14 Changing site-lisp without installing it Spencer Baugh
2023-08-03 0:25 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-03 4:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-03 15:58 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-08-03 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-03 18:46 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-08-04 5:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-03 16:10 ` Emanuel Berg
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