From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 17:38:07 +0300 Message-ID: <837eaubesw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20190502214006.4fdsinp7u5xuqvdv@Ergus> <20190503004416.xfuzzucflp6bxpuz@Ergus> <8736lm30lz.fsf@web.de> <864l61j04d.fsf@zoho.eu> <20190511073254.GB29829@tuxteam.de> <04187AB9-AD7D-492D-A890-BCB01848370C@icloud.com> <20190511075712.GD29829@tuxteam.de> <86a7fsfv1m.fsf@zoho.eu> <20190512075448.GA11650@tuxteam.de> <346107E9-590D-4A18-9152-ECFF36FC4EDC@icloud.com> <83r293bvok.fsf@gnu.org> <87ef53vihw.fsf@telefonica.net> <83mujrbsk7.fsf@gnu.org> <867eavywh1.fsf@zoho.eu> Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="83754"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 13 16:38:38 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hQC6A-000Lb0-5f for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 16:38:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58523 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQC69-0006DX-0b for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 10:38:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42174) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQC5x-0006DQ-Cm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 10:38:26 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45756) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQC5x-0003u9-AY for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 10:38:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3158 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hQC5w-0006Wo-R6 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 10:38:25 -0400 In-reply-to: <867eavywh1.fsf@zoho.eu> (message from Emanuel Berg on Mon, 13 May 2019 03:27:54 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120345 Archived-At: > From: Emanuel Berg > Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 03:27:54 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > I agree that our situation with IDE features > > is quite bleak > > What IDE features are those? (Not > a rhetorical question.) Out of the important features listed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment we completely lack support for code completion and refactoring. Our debugging support is only up to speed with GDB, which means we are limited in the programming languages we can support reasonably well. (And even gdb-mi is just good, e.g., it cannot display complex structures unless you install Python plugins; and its development stagnated). Our code search capabilities are rudimentary, and don't support well modern languages like Java and C++. So 4 out of 6 important features are either missing or have serious deficiencies. Sure, add-on packages are available to provide some of the missing features, but they don't always work well together, and ion any case, Emacs should have these features built-in, if we want (and we do want) to claim the title of programmer's editor. > Actually in the literal sense of the word > (acronym) I think Emacs is the _ultimate_ IDE > for doing anything and everything with > a computer. In theory. But not in practice, not at this time. > And if nobody has or is, why care/complain > about it? Let it be, man. Because we want to be "the ultimate IDE".