Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Christopher Pinon]

I'm familiar with Emacs (using version 25.1), but new to Rmail, which
I've been testing. My quick question is: is there a simple key
distinction between 'reply' and 'reply-all' in Rmail?

In more detail, the Emacs manual, specifically,

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Rmail-Reply.html

suggests (on my reading) that typing 'r' will add the 'CC' field to the
header if the incoming message contains recipients in this field. In
contrast, typing 'C-u r' will omit the 'CC' field entirely.

Unfortunately, in my testing, typing 'r' (like 'C-u r') omits the 'CC'
field when the incoming message contains recipients in this field, and I
have to add this field manually if I want to have it.

Am I missing something obvious? (My customizations are minimal and don't
concern 'reply' in Rmail.) Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you,
C.

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz>
> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2017 13:05:40 +0100
> 
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Rmail-Reply.html
> 
> suggests (on my reading) that typing 'r' will add the 'CC' field to the
> header if the incoming message contains recipients in this field. In
> contrast, typing 'C-u r' will omit the 'CC' field entirely.
> 
> Unfortunately, in my testing, typing 'r' (like 'C-u r') omits the 'CC'
> field when the incoming message contains recipients in this field, and I
> have to add this field manually if I want to have it.

That's not what I see here, with Rmail: 'r' responds to the "From"
address, and places all the addresses from "To" and "CC" (if any) in
the "CC" field of the response.  "C-u r" produces a response with a
single address in "To", and no "CC".

I wonder why this doesn't happen to you.  Maybe you have some
customizations which cause this?

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Christopher Pinon]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz>
>> 
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Rmail-Reply.html
>> 
>> suggests (on my reading) that typing 'r' will add the 'CC' field to the
>> header if the incoming message contains recipients in this field. In
>> contrast, typing 'C-u r' will omit the 'CC' field entirely.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, in my testing, typing 'r' (like 'C-u r') omits the 'CC'
>> field when the incoming message contains recipients in this field, and I
>> have to add this field manually if I want to have it.
>
> That's not what I see here, with Rmail: 'r' responds to the "From"
> address, and places all the addresses from "To" and "CC" (if any) in
> the "CC" field of the response.  "C-u r" produces a response with a
> single address in "To", and no "CC".
>
> I wonder why this doesn't happen to you.  Maybe you have some
> customizations which cause this?

I have very few customizations to begin with, and certainly none that
redefine 'reply' functions (am using stock Emacs 25.1). No fancy stuff
whatsoever!

I just did some further tests, sending mail to myself from other
accounts, putting multiple recipients in "CC" and/or "To". The behavior
is the same: 'r' just puts the sender into "To". :-(

I recall experimenting with Rmail last year using Emacs 24.5, and I
witnessed the same behavior as now regarding 'r' (again, during my
tests). In fact, last year I gave up on Rmail for this reason, but now
decided to try again.

Strange. I guess that I have to do further tests. (Otherwise I like
Rmail!)

Thanks for your reply.

C.

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Christopher Pinon]

Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> From: Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz>
>>> 
>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Rmail-Reply.html
>>> 
>>> suggests (on my reading) that typing 'r' will add the 'CC' field to the
>>> header if the incoming message contains recipients in this field. In
>>> contrast, typing 'C-u r' will omit the 'CC' field entirely.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, in my testing, typing 'r' (like 'C-u r') omits the 'CC'
>>> field when the incoming message contains recipients in this field, and I
>>> have to add this field manually if I want to have it.
>>
>> That's not what I see here, with Rmail: 'r' responds to the "From"
>> address, and places all the addresses from "To" and "CC" (if any) in
>> the "CC" field of the response.  "C-u r" produces a response with a
>> single address in "To", and no "CC".
>>
>> I wonder why this doesn't happen to you.  Maybe you have some
>> customizations which cause this?
>
> I have very few customizations to begin with, and certainly none that
> redefine 'reply' functions (am using stock Emacs 25.1). No fancy stuff
> whatsoever!
>
> I just did some further tests, sending mail to myself from other
> accounts, putting multiple recipients in "CC" and/or "To". The behavior
> is the same: 'r' just puts the sender into "To". :-(
>
> I recall experimenting with Rmail last year using Emacs 24.5, and I
> witnessed the same behavior as now regarding 'r' (again, during my
> tests). In fact, last year I gave up on Rmail for this reason, but now
> decided to try again.
>
> Strange. I guess that I have to do further tests. (Otherwise I like
> Rmail!)

As a follow-up to myself, I would like to share what I found.

During my private tests, I used three other email addresses that I have:
myusername@domain1, myusername@domain2, and myusername@domain3. These
are different addresses (because different domains), but 'myusername' is
the same in each case. What I found is that 'r' in Rmail did not add
these addresses to "CC" or "To", which is what puzzled me.

As soon as I used an address of the form anotherusername@domain in "CC"
or "To", 'r' in Rmail behaved as expected (i.e., as according to the
manual) and added it to "CC" or "To".

In sum, 'r' in Rmail appears to treat the addresses myusername@domain1,
myusername@domain2, and myusername@domain3 as the same address, which is
a bit unfortunate. In practice, it's not likely to be a significant
issue (it was an artifact of my private tests), but it nevertheless
seems a little odd for 'r' in Rmail to treat such addresses as the same.

C.

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Christopher Pinon]

Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz> writes:

> Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz> writes:
>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>>> From: Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz>
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Rmail-Reply.html
>>>> 
>>>> suggests (on my reading) that typing 'r' will add the 'CC' field to the
>>>> header if the incoming message contains recipients in this field. In
>>>> contrast, typing 'C-u r' will omit the 'CC' field entirely.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, in my testing, typing 'r' (like 'C-u r') omits the 'CC'
>>>> field when the incoming message contains recipients in this field, and I
>>>> have to add this field manually if I want to have it.
>>>
>>> That's not what I see here, with Rmail: 'r' responds to the "From"
>>> address, and places all the addresses from "To" and "CC" (if any) in
>>> the "CC" field of the response.  "C-u r" produces a response with a
>>> single address in "To", and no "CC".
>>>
>>> I wonder why this doesn't happen to you.  Maybe you have some
>>> customizations which cause this?
>>
>> I have very few customizations to begin with, and certainly none that
>> redefine 'reply' functions (am using stock Emacs 25.1). No fancy stuff
>> whatsoever!
>>
>> I just did some further tests, sending mail to myself from other
>> accounts, putting multiple recipients in "CC" and/or "To". The behavior
>> is the same: 'r' just puts the sender into "To". :-(
>>
>> I recall experimenting with Rmail last year using Emacs 24.5, and I
>> witnessed the same behavior as now regarding 'r' (again, during my
>> tests). In fact, last year I gave up on Rmail for this reason, but now
>> decided to try again.
>>
>> Strange. I guess that I have to do further tests. (Otherwise I like
>> Rmail!)
>
> As a follow-up to myself, I would like to share what I found.

[For the sake of clarity, I've reformatted my previous message. Although
I naturally didn't use real email addresses, I had forgotten that even
fake addresses would be disguised. Sorry about this.]

During my private tests, I used three other email addresses that I have:
myusername AT domain1, myusername AT domain2, and myusername AT
domain3. These are different addresses (because different domains), but
'myusername' is the same in each case. What I found is that 'r' in Rmail
did not add these addresses to "CC" or "To", which is what puzzled me.

As soon as I used an address of the form anotherusername AT domain in
"CC" or "To", 'r' in Rmail behaved as expected (i.e., as according to
the manual) and added it to "CC" or "To".

In sum, 'r' in Rmail appears to treat the addresses myusername AT
domain1, myusername AT domain2, and myusername AT domain3 as the same
address, which is a bit unfortunate. In practice, it's not likely to be
a significant issue (it was an artifact of my private tests), but it
nevertheless seems a little odd for 'r' in Rmail to treat such addresses
as the same.

C.

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Robert Thorpe]

Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz> writes:
...
> During my private tests, I used three other email addresses that I have:
> myusername AT domain1, myusername AT domain2, and myusername AT
> domain3. These are different addresses (because different domains), but
> 'myusername' is the same in each case. What I found is that 'r' in Rmail
> did not add these addresses to "CC" or "To", which is what puzzled me.
>
> As soon as I used an address of the form anotherusername AT domain in
> "CC" or "To", 'r' in Rmail behaved as expected (i.e., as according to
> the manual) and added it to "CC" or "To".
>
> In sum, 'r' in Rmail appears to treat the addresses myusername AT
> domain1, myusername AT domain2, and myusername AT domain3 as the same
> address, which is a bit unfortunate. In practice, it's not likely to be
> a significant issue (it was an artifact of my private tests), but it
> nevertheless seems a little odd for 'r' in Rmail to treat such addresses
> as the same.

This is an obscure case.  On the other hand, it should work.  So, this
looks like a bug to me.

I have never encountered this problem in practice when using Rmail though.

BR,
Robert Thorpe

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Christopher Pinon]

Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:

> Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz> writes:
> ...
>> During my private tests, I used three other email addresses that I have:
>> myusername AT domain1, myusername AT domain2, and myusername AT
>> domain3. These are different addresses (because different domains), but
>> 'myusername' is the same in each case. What I found is that 'r' in Rmail
>> did not add these addresses to "CC" or "To", which is what puzzled me.
>>
>> As soon as I used an address of the form anotherusername AT domain in
>> "CC" or "To", 'r' in Rmail behaved as expected (i.e., as according to
>> the manual) and added it to "CC" or "To".
>>
>> In sum, 'r' in Rmail appears to treat the addresses myusername AT
>> domain1, myusername AT domain2, and myusername AT domain3 as the same
>> address, which is a bit unfortunate. In practice, it's not likely to be
>> a significant issue (it was an artifact of my private tests), but it
>> nevertheless seems a little odd for 'r' in Rmail to treat such addresses
>> as the same.
>
> This is an obscure case.  On the other hand, it should work.  So, this
> looks like a bug to me.

I didn't want to call it a bug, but I would agree. :-)

> I have never encountered this problem in practice when using Rmail though.

I imagine that Rmail has behaved like this for a long time now, but it's
probably rarely the case that one would want to reply-all to addresses
username AT domain1, username AT domain2, etc., where username is the
same in each case.

C.

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz>
> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:48:20 +0100
> 
> Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:
> 
> > Christopher Pinon <cjpinon@secondfloor.xyz> writes:
> > ...
> >> During my private tests, I used three other email addresses that I have:
> >> myusername AT domain1, myusername AT domain2, and myusername AT
> >> domain3. These are different addresses (because different domains), but
> >> 'myusername' is the same in each case. What I found is that 'r' in Rmail
> >> did not add these addresses to "CC" or "To", which is what puzzled me.
> >>
> >> As soon as I used an address of the form anotherusername AT domain in
> >> "CC" or "To", 'r' in Rmail behaved as expected (i.e., as according to
> >> the manual) and added it to "CC" or "To".
> >>
> >> In sum, 'r' in Rmail appears to treat the addresses myusername AT
> >> domain1, myusername AT domain2, and myusername AT domain3 as the same
> >> address, which is a bit unfortunate. In practice, it's not likely to be
> >> a significant issue (it was an artifact of my private tests), but it
> >> nevertheless seems a little odd for 'r' in Rmail to treat such addresses
> >> as the same.
> >
> > This is an obscure case.  On the other hand, it should work.  So, this
> > looks like a bug to me.
> 
> I didn't want to call it a bug, but I would agree. :-)
> 
> > I have never encountered this problem in practice when using Rmail though.
> 
> I imagine that Rmail has behaved like this for a long time now, but it's
> probably rarely the case that one would want to reply-all to addresses
> username AT domain1, username AT domain2, etc., where username is the
> same in each case.

FWIW, I cannot reproduce the behavior you reported: I took a real mail
message, added to it several addresses of the form USER@DOMAIN, where
USER was the same string in all of the addresses, and 'r' in Rmail
produced a response message where all of those addresses were on the
CC list, not one was omitted.

So the problem, if it exists, is probably triggered by some other
factor(s).  If you can, please show a message replying to which
reproduces this behavior.  Preferably, report all the details to the
Emacs bug tracker using "M-x report-emacs-bug RET".

Thanks.

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Glenn Morris]

It's due to the function mail-dont-reply-to, which sets the variable
mail-dont-reply-to-names to a value including

(concat "\\`" (regexp-quote user-login-name) "@")

which is far too broad.

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 14:19:31 -0500
> 
> 
> It's due to the function mail-dont-reply-to, which sets the variable
> mail-dont-reply-to-names to a value including
> 
> (concat "\\`" (regexp-quote user-login-name) "@")
> 
> which is far too broad.

So it's not just _any_ repeated user@, it must be _my_ username.

OK, I'll look into that.  Thanks.

Re: Rmail: 'reply' vs 'reply-all'?

[Christopher Pinon]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
>> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 14:19:31 -0500
>> 
>> 
>> It's due to the function mail-dont-reply-to, which sets the variable
>> mail-dont-reply-to-names to a value including
>> 
>> (concat "\\`" (regexp-quote user-login-name) "@")
>> 
>> which is far too broad.
>
> So it's not just _any_ repeated user@, it must be _my_ username.
>
> OK, I'll look into that.  Thanks.

Indeed, as I tried to say when I described (on Feb. 3) in more detail
the problem that I was experiencing in my private tests, I was using the
addresses myusername AT domain1, myusername AT domain2, etc., where
myusername is not only the same in each case but it's my own username
(all email addresses of mine), including on the machine that I was
testing Rmail.

But I see now that I then made a false generalization (especially in my
summary on Feb. 6) that 'r' in Rmail would behave incorrectly when given
_any_ addresses username AT domain1, username AT domain2, etc., where
username is the same in each case, which is what Eli couldn't
reproduce. (Admittedly, I didn't test this.)

So, in sum, the observation is that if your email address is
yourusername AT domain1 on the machine that you're using Rmail, then 'r'
does not copy to "CC" or "To" other addresses yourusername AT domain2,
yourusername AT domain3, etc., where yourusername is the same in each
case. If this observation is correct, it seems to me that 'r' doesn't
behave as expected.

Thanks to Glenn and Eli for helping to clarify this.

C.