From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Heime via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Advantage using mapc over dolist Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 18:01:42 +0000 Message-ID: <7xlzeonoWSUauTrSplAmgZhQ82RWabA8HApJ7znvbfmBbIzxB_yA78vOqoht_Qs_VAABcnxMe4qCfV8X2yVAgovxFOcNLKrhGEIhvQsbol4=@protonmail.com> References: <87zflevbwm.fsf@neko.mail-host-address-is-not-set> <87h67ku813.fsf@neko.mail-host-address-is-not-set> Reply-To: Heime Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16632"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Tomas Hlavaty , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 03 19:02:43 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tIXEQ-000499-3k for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 19:02:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIXDp-00009F-Jv; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 13:02:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIXDb-00008x-Kw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 13:01:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tIXDZ-00089p-DR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 13:01:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1733248906; x=1733508106; bh=EC76wubRu7tu8BhS4CcxAMSoaKpAKXpSx83RWneXyOU=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector:List-Unsubscribe:List-Unsubscribe-Post; b=DLgkGtBMFzoHTUTXgljShDbcu8XgQdDk61zE6dC0ywPwCdGWAhLl7hRydGfVBtoZi fLRGIAU8/cRiv4VJP7PLnclqb6jiVGejFUaRCqXnED4ir951nN7B43lEW8GyayxZF+ K6vYiyQdsByLrk1JAl8HE8L3iBkIauf1evTfLjRfkvrweEKCJYJet71+M2WqXmsTnV 07jJHk8ONq7Hb9rloY5UONA9GwjWJzss7buM9VvG4nQ8V2WWYd9oUUlco84d56nHVK jmIehYEHUFw64fHa07ARiSShaOb5pAVgNs0RkRPQUQ5H+Hxa6nQ6CFoJBvj6i7p+Ft DZF1Mmn+iBA2Q== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 55e64b31ce3e79338f34ef0eace16019b377ead9 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.25; envelope-from=heimeborgia@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4325.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:148549 Archived-At: On Wednesday, December 4th, 2024 at 4:47 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > I respect your preference and understand that you as pcase author would > > prefer it everywhere. But whoever renamed case and ecase did not > > respect other peoples preferences and people are now forced to use that > > pcase monstrosity even in very simple cases. >=20 >=20 > I'm also the renamer of `case/ecase`, yes. =F0=9F=99=82 >=20 > This was not done to discourage people's use of it, actually the > reverse. Yes, I know it sounds counter intuitive Your statement that it is counter intuitive does actually result in difficu= lties to users. Instead, things should be clear, so users can easily decide when= to=20 use one form and when the other, or if there is no difference alone. > , so let me explain: > Richard was strongly opposed to the use of the CL package because of its > "stepping" all over the ELisp namespace. For years, this manifested > itself in the fact that use of CL within Emacs's own code was generally > shunned and tolerated only with (eval-when-compile (require 'cl)), > meaning that you could use CL only when it could be compiled away during > byte-compilation (by macro-expansion and/or inlining). So you could use > `ecase` but not `some`. This discouragement seems to have remained present. Users looking at the c= l-* also wonder in what situations would they use them and when to use the elis= p ones. One cannot find a clear discussion about this in the manual, in a wa= y that a user can make the suitable decision about which to use.=20 > While some people were happy because they consider that ELisp is better > off without those Common Lisp constructs, many others were annoyed, and > it imposed obstacles to the inclusion of some packages into Emacs. >=20 > Finally in Emacs-24.3, we reached a compromise which was to introduce > CL-Lib, which is like CL except all the functions/macros are prefixed > with "cl-". By its nature as a compromise, everyone both lost and won > at the same time. The question is whether people can use the cl-* ones freely or not. Are=20 there scenarios when you don't want to use them but use the elisp ones inst= ead? One thing I still have difficulty about is how the usual lisp is discourag= ed when elisp is supposedly normal lisp for use with emacs configuration. But has evolved into something else. =20 > Note that if you really really hate using these extra three letters, you > can still (require 'cl). It's deprecated and may be removed from Emacs in > some future release, but it's a very simple library so you can keep your > own copy (and we may even put it up on GNU ELPA anyway). >=20 >=20 > Stefan