From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chris McMahan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: emacs-w3m question Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:19:08 -0500 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC Message-ID: <7sskq7k4s3.fsf@one.net> References: <87vdvdu4mp.fsf@literaturlatenight.de> <74160b46-e541-436a-a776-c8bd53d6cd55@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <1f28a20e-0c9f-4478-a85c-27ae40ed7fc9@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com> <200811031125.mA3BPPZu024539@zogzog.maillard.mobi> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1225806099 14953 80.91.229.12 (4 Nov 2008 13:41:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 13:41:39 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 04 14:42:37 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from mail-forward2.uio.no ([129.240.10.71]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KxMAs-0002jH-O8 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:42:26 +0100 Original-Received: from exim by mail-out2.uio.no with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KxM9m-0007v2-6t for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:41:18 +0100 Original-Received: from mail-mx5.uio.no ([129.240.10.46]) by mail-out2.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KxM9m-0007uz-5u for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:41:18 +0100 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by mail-mx5.uio.no with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KxM9l-0002qR-Dk for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 14:41:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50354 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KxM9k-0006p3-Ap for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:41:16 -0500 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!panix!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 45 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: panix5.panix.com Original-X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1225804750 22493 166.84.1.5 (4 Nov 2008 13:19:10 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 13:19:10 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:q3g09u817M4K5MmQOlCd6EHQ8y8= Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:164095 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: pass (mail-mx5.uio.no: domain of gnu.org designates 199.232.76.165 as permitted sender) client-ip=199.232.76.165; envelope-from=help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org; helo=lists.gnu.org; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-4.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, MISSING_SUBJECT=0.001,NO_RECEIVED=-0.001,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 853A0DE8103C3E16139154DF92D54409CB32B355 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 199.232.76.165 spam_score: -39 maxlevel 200 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 46 total 75870 max/h 424 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:59431 Archived-At: Richard Riley writes: > Paul R writes: > >> Dear Xavier, >> >> Xavier> What's more, directional keys are one of the dumbest addition >> Xavier> one could have thought off (in my opinion). The same apply for >> Xavier> numerical keypad: what are they useful for exactly ? Is it that >> Xavier> hard to press shift+& (for the azerty keyboard) to get a 1 ? Or >> Xavier> press C-b to move point left ? I do not think so. >> >> Xavier> The real reason that comes to mind is lazyness. People do not >> Xavier> want to (take time to) learn how to do things, they want to go >> Xavier> fast (even if they go fast wrongly). Keyboard (or typing more >> Xavier> generally) is just an example, there are so many other applying >> Xavier> here... >> >> This sounds sooo much like overstated elitism. You may prefer to use C-b >> and C-f and S-&, because you're so good and so l33t, this will never >> change the point : beginners don't, period. Default settings must help >> those people, who have not yet set their .emacs, to use and try the >> software and see if they like it or not. > > That's pretty much as I see it too. And only recently having become > proficient enough with emacs once again I can attest to the difficulties > involved in understanding some of the more antiquated defaults which do > not take into account beginners. It takes a special kind of curmudgeon > to deny that setting the arrow keys to move the cursor the same as > virtually every other application in the world would help Emacs uptake. My only issue with making the arrow keys the default setting is that it forces me to take my hands away from the home keys. I don't like using page-up and page-down for the same reason. I'd have no objection as long as the standard cursor movement keys (C-n C-p C-f and C-b) are also enabled. - Chris -- (. .) =ooO=(_)=Ooo===================================== Chris McMahan | first_initiallastname@one.dot.net =================================================