From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Barry Fishman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs documentation is bad Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2018 17:33:53 -0400 Organization: Easynews - www.easynews.com Message-ID: <7nlg8afj9a.fsf@ecube.ecubist.org> References: <20180909133428.GC6746@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536528805 8568 195.159.176.226 (9 Sep 2018 21:33:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 21:33:25 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 09 23:33:20 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fz7Ka-00028b-Ip for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 23:33:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48806 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fz7Mg-0007G0-U6 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 17:35:30 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin2!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!feeder4.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!border1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!npeer-ng0.de.kpn-eurorings.net!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer02.fr7!futter-mich.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad!fx31.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Cancel-Lock: sha1:laYOeeztR/92HfYja1tvZ/j22Qg= Original-Lines: 46 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. X-Received-Bytes: 2864 X-Received-Body-CRC: 2816092307 X-Original-Bytes: 2599 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:223725 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:117850 Archived-At: On 2018-09-09 07:26:37 -07, John Stone wrote: > From >> I'd try to help you, but the way you are yelling around, I don't really >> feel like it. [I'll assume the OP is just frustrated, and is used to Twitter, so doesn't know how to behave in polite company.] I have a hard time parsing your odd formatting. I assume your expression is: (((lambda (f) (lambda (x) (list f x))) 'g) 'y) This does not work with 'lisp'. It only works with Scheme implementations, where the first position in a S-expression is evaluated. Scheme, although it shares the syntax with Lisp languages, has quite different semantics, so it is not useful to consider it another Lisp. To me it's like referring to Java as a C++. In most lisps (like Common Lisp and E-Lisp) that is not done, so your lambda expression which evaluates to a lambda will not then be re-evaluated. In most lisps you can use a lambda expression in the function position of an S-expression, but not something that evaluates to a lambda. You can can force the evaluation with: (funcall ((lambda (f) (lambda (x) (list f x))) 'g) 'y) Which works with Common Lisp, but not E-Lisp, since E-Lisp does not have lexical scope by default. But you can enable it so that it would work: (setq lexical-binding t) (funcall ((lambda (f) (lambda (x) (list f x))) 'g) 'y) --> (g y) If Scheme semantics are that important to you, you could move your project to a Scheme environment, maybe MIT Scheme and Erwin, if you want a Scheme based Emacs. Or help with the project implementing Guile Emacs. > don't fix the broken the docs then, we'll use a different lisp for this > project As far as the Gnu Emacs documentation is concerned I'm not convinced it is wrong. -- Barry Fishman