From: Rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:41:58 -0700 (PDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <7e8ddf8f-163a-4d16-9ce2-25b0cb3f35aa@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87d23s4nt4.fsf@debian.uxu>
On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 6:29:45 AM UTC+5:30, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> "Pascal J. Bourguignon"
> > The success of lisp and unix over the decades shows
> > that simplier tools win on the long term.
> > Contrarily to graphic programming languages (such as
> > UML) or other "experiments", or more complex
> > systems, object-based or other (LispMachines), which
> > will eventually break and be forgotten by most and
> > regretted by few).
>
> One hundred percent correct! All those silly tools are
> intended so the programmer can be replaced by people
> who cannot program. So far that hasn't happen - and
> I am confident it never will.
Its important to distinguish and orthogonalize two aspects:
1. Linearity
2. Charset
Starting from Turing's paper where he 'created' his machine, the big jump
from normal math to Turing-math (which would later become CS) was linearity.
Turing asks us to imagine a mathematician doing a computation on paper
(shortform compute-er!) and then goes on to show that the paper can be
linearized into a 'tape'.
This linearity persists today in our computers whose memories are linear
sequences of bytes numbered 0 to 4G (or whatever).
Likewise files are sequences of bytes.
Then, because we humans dont like linearity too much, we have devices like
- emacs that non-linearizes a file on disk into a 2-D display
- file-systems that non-linearize a block into a file-system
- and so on.
So html for example non-linearizes a linear text.
Unicode (charset in general) doesn't (ok there's bidi codes but ignoring that).
Things like UML are difficult and problematic because of non-linearity not charset.
There are at least half-a-dozen programming languages and systems I can think of
that are already unicode-capable:
From venerable to cutting-edge:
APL, Appletalk, Fortress, Erlang, Python, Julia, Haskell, Agda,
And even Elisp!
*** Welcome to IELM *** Type (describe-mode) for help.
ELISP> (setq α 1 β 2 γ 3)
3 (#o3, #x3, ?\C-c)
ELISP> (list α β γ)
(1 2 3)
ELISP>
How much costly was that α to type than alpha?? One backslash!!
Add to that the fact that programs are read
- 10 times more than written during development
- 100 times more during maintenance
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-03-29 2:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-03-23 22:53 if vs. when vs. and: style question Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-24 0:15 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24 0:34 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-24 0:22 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2648.1427156603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-24 2:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24 6:12 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 0:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 0:20 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 2:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 2:51 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 7:12 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 14:02 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-25 14:52 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question now Unicode Dan Espen
2015-03-25 15:24 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:46 ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 16:02 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:16 ` Dan Espen
2015-03-28 17:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:46 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:22 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 15:37 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 1:17 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 15:45 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 1:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-29 2:41 ` Rusi [this message]
2015-03-29 3:11 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 14:05 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-29 16:00 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-30 1:55 ` Óscar Fuentes
[not found] ` <mailman.2998.1427680540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 2:25 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 18:27 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 0:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 1:33 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-30 1:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 9:44 ` tomas
2015-03-30 11:46 ` Óscar Fuentes
[not found] ` <mailman.3016.1427716011.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 13:03 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 14:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 15:21 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-30 15:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
[not found] ` <mailman.3031.1427729518.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 17:15 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
[not found] ` <mailman.3030.1427728904.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-31 6:26 ` Reality and Proofs (was if vs. when vs. and: style question) Rusi
[not found] ` <mailman.3010.1427708687.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 12:59 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
[not found] ` <mailman.2972.1427637975.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 1:55 ` Rusi
[not found] ` <mailman.2749.1427294481.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 15:33 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:36 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 16:06 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2751.1427299594.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 16:19 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 16:23 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 1:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:02 ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 18:23 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2758.1427307846.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 18:52 ` Dan Espen
2015-03-26 9:47 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-29 23:06 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.2799.1427363259.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 10:24 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:28 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:47 ` Unicode in source (Was Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question) Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2802.1427366873.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:54 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 17:07 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2824.1427389660.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 17:16 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:43 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-26 13:02 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 22:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 22:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 19:17 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 20:31 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 22:21 ` Richard Wordingham
2015-03-25 23:21 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 23:52 ` Richard Wordingham
[not found] ` <mailman.2782.1427325697.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 3:02 ` Rusi
2015-03-26 10:01 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2800.1427364117.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 13:00 ` Rusi
2015-03-26 13:28 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2809.1427376497.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:51 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 16:21 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2779.1427322080.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-01 2:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 3:03 ` Rusi
2015-04-01 14:29 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 14:57 ` Rusi
[not found] ` <mailman.2771.1427315503.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 4:23 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 19:20 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 11:37 ` Alan Schmitt
2015-03-30 1:20 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-30 2:43 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 3:12 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:49 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 18:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.2756.1427307016.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 21:27 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 21:32 ` Rusi
2015-03-31 16:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-31 17:22 ` Rusi
2015-04-01 18:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 20:01 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 3:54 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 7:59 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27 8:06 ` tomas
2015-03-27 8:11 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27 9:20 ` tomas
2015-03-27 9:31 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2860.1427443603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 12:41 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 13:05 ` tomas
[not found] ` <mailman.2875.1427461540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 13:35 ` Rusi
2015-03-27 12:34 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 0:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 7:53 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2856.1427442800.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 8:56 ` Joost Kremers
2015-03-27 12:19 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 14:20 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 2:35 ` Rusi
2015-03-27 0:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 21:27 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 22:54 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-28 1:16 ` Rusi
2015-03-28 12:47 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24 15:18 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 0:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24 7:21 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
[not found] ` <mailman.2659.1427181547.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 0:34 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] <mailman.2645.1427151196.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-23 23:19 ` Emanuel Berg
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