From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Peter Milliken" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: is there summary of template systems for emacs? Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 06:14:33 +1100 Message-ID: <791153ba0812071114p7ccb834bkd6ddfa8dd93cf737@mail.gmail.com> References: <2103fd36-c5cd-4e8d-a74f-34697a369934@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <003101c954de$f95a3000$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_136998_14286503.1228677273535" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1228677331 23579 80.91.229.12 (7 Dec 2008 19:15:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:15:31 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 07 20:16:34 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1L9P7K-0004Y2-1c for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:16:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41145 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L9P69-0006pP-4F for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:15:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L9P5S-0006fP-KA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:14:38 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L9P5R-0006f0-AO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:14:37 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34228 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L9P5R-0006ex-0D for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:14:37 -0500 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.159]:64698) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1L9P5Q-0000KT-0R for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:14:36 -0500 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so638798fgb.30 for ; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:14:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=6RzsDDiVij59qjNTsbg11qiQgqfqv+Y4Ivi4Rb01N/Y=; b=FVanCOM1fvuNNgaYtQnA4BSgH0u4zJca7Qff88bkaqez/s/heoMLk9j8R5ixa67tSP Tf4cBZ5MeHD1h6oumTW8tWoqGxc4C2i60WEnfmdX3tIL6ZCwD+akh96uww6O+nbozNnb R/QM/4q8PT2pUahFyHTjCVuiYt8bqIcAIVuRc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=XMob4caYSDybdxnU2GCs6nV3IvA62CUetS/uVAVFoD0PKmSi584eLFJR9mSPRnDMmD /kgykb/5pA01RSroMJ5N6qFF5nJW+tht8b6xqCGdzrjXeGMRbfJzCXErMq823uKpRQQS A3m6CIlmWTxoqht3k2ScR+rs0Ld+FkkWTCbPA= Original-Received: by 10.86.3.4 with SMTP id 4mr2125019fgc.44.1228677273533; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:14:33 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.86.83.11 with HTTP; Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:14:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <003101c954de$f95a3000$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:60428 Archived-At: ------=_Part_136998_14286503.1228677273535 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Xah, I'd be interested in your opinion of ELSE. I haven't tried some of the others that you mention - ELSE suits me fine. I have tried tempo and skeleton etc but were turned off by the "intrusive" and horribly awkward interfaces that they presented to the user. I had been exposed to DEC's LSE in the past (circa 1985), and found that it didn't "get in my face" or cause awkward usage problems, so I decided to "port" their language sensitive editor functionality to Emacs (hence E(macs)LSE :-)). But facilities such as ELSE, tempo, skeleton etc are obviously not very popular (which I have never been able to understand!) i.e. I have shown many fellow programmers ELSE over the years and not a single one of them has ever taken up it's use. In fact, through all the time ELSE has been available on the Internet, I have only ever received less than 10 queries/expressions of interest in it - which may argue that it just doesn't hit the mark! :-) But given the alternatives that were available (especially in the "early days") I don't think that was the case. Of course, these days, it is even less likely because Emacs just isn't that popular as an editor i.e. there are probably 30 - 40 programmers at my current place of employ and there is only one other programmer here that uses Emacs - so the opportunities for creating "converts" are not good at all! ELSE does not use (e)lisp like syntax. It has it's own template file for generating new templates. It has (what I believe is) extensive documentation - something that has always annoyed me about many Emacs packages (such as tempo and skeleton) - when they were first available it was very much "read the code and examples" - I believe that has changed for skeleton but I had long since lost interest by the time somebody rectified that! So I would echo Drew's call - by all means do a comparison and share the results if you can with us all. Peter On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > there seems to be a lot elisp packages for defining templates. Has > > anyone studied them and can give a comparison? Basically, i just need > > a brief explanation of their syntax and feature. > > > > the emacswiki page > > http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CategoryTemplates > > is very helpful in listing them but a clear summary and comparison is > > lacking. here's what i found so far.... > > Good idea. Please update the wiki with a summary of the info you found and > whatever else comes out of this thread that might be helpful. The next > person > who looks where you did will then find that missing help. ;-) > > > > > ------=_Part_136998_14286503.1228677273535 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Xah,

I'd be interested in your opinion of ELSE. I haven't tried some of the others that you mention - ELSE suits me fine. I have tried tempo and skeleton etc but were turned off by the "intrusive" and horribly awkward interfaces that they presented to the user. I had been exposed to DEC's LSE in the past (circa 1985), and found that it didn't "get in my face" or cause awkward usage problems, so I decided to "port" their language sensitive editor functionality to Emacs (hence E(macs)LSE :-)).

But facilities such as ELSE, tempo, skeleton etc are obviously not very popular (which I have never been able to understand!) i.e. I have shown many fellow programmers ELSE over the years and not a single one of them has ever taken up it's use. In fact, through all the time ELSE has been available on the Internet, I have only ever received less than 10 queries/expressions of interest in it - which may argue that it just doesn't hit the mark! :-) But given the alternatives that were available (especially in the "early days") I don't think that was the case. Of course, these days, it is even less likely because Emacs just isn't that popular as an editor i.e. there are probably 30 - 40 programmers at my current place of employ and there is only one other programm er here that uses Emacs - so the opportunities for creating "converts" are not good at all!

ELSE does not use (e)lisp like syntax. It has it's own template file for generating new templates. It has (what I believe is) extensive documentation - something that has always annoyed me about many Emacs packages (such as tempo and skeleton) - when they were first available it was very much "read the code and examples" - I believe that has changed for skeleton but I had long since lost interest by the time somebody rectified that!

So I would echo Drew's call - by all means do a comparison and share the results if you can with us all.

Peter

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
> there seems to be a lot elisp packages for defining templates. Has
> anyone studied them and can give a comparison? Basically, i just need
> a brief explanation of their syntax and feature.
>
> the emacswiki page
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CategoryTemplates
> is very helpful in listing them but a clear summary and comparison is
> lacking. here's what i found so far....

Good idea. Please update the wiki with a summary of the info you found and
whatever else comes out of this thread that might be helpful. The next person
who looks where you did will then find that missing help. ;-)





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