From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: using setq to create lists based on other lists... Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 06:57:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <76f5bace-2dae-436b-af50-beb29c41a247@default> References: <(message> <04> <2018> <04:04:52> <-0500)> <878t14dbms.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <89ae7d4c-e343-49e5-8e9e-454000e60b80@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1544021792 28649 195.159.176.226 (5 Dec 2018 14:56:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 14:56:32 +0000 (UTC) To: Jean-Christophe Helary , help-gnu-emacs Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 05 15:56:28 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gUYbD-0007LH-NH for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2018 15:56:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35002 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gUYdK-00040I-5q for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:58:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49014) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gUYct-000402-Ks for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:58:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gUYcn-0005yB-1p for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:58:10 -0500 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:41882) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gUYcm-0005xZ-Mw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:58:04 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id wB5EsB29086254; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 14:58:02 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=yQZbwvwZ9Ad5Xv9mvdcHfmuzKIzHPIW34A05Q81Iwu8=; b=lpjMudi4EZX7UppJy6+5i5Dsktwd5n1fGkcMSJ004qNs4RNaMupLo0alb+hgUYN3nEFO k3aPUikLosu5o/N6k1+1W0+7RDDGZbzf784Ddw2ari2A1UFaItm8FZuR3X7kJ1ksm8p9 lV6jCWEEJ5GTlVlY8wO5WbMPfDpDP0bo8BDkMY4y0s95Zl4cqQHN7YoEXztWqHPt6m/s 668QQwYbjbPk6PtmkoP0q6po3bvbDqBRRG6mMuMLmNytGNGc6GHEE9r3omB0uWDuYHe0 NHgdBdIktUKh/rgn1J0ygUBj4qdgIn6BV5tK+F8nZ3PaNpMdZ6nExTJ0tumQJr3HnW0P uw== Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2p3jxrjrbc-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 05 Dec 2018 14:58:01 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id wB5Ew0xq002761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 5 Dec 2018 14:58:00 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id wB5Ew0PU027142; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 14:58:00 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4771.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9097 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=684 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1812050134 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.85 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118863 Archived-At: > > Lisp is typically not a Lisp learner's first language. >=20 > Emacs could (and is) used by first learners and ... > the Introduction could be used as a Lisp manual for > such people. Yes, of course. The point is that someone coming to Lisp from another language, especially (and typically) from a language where variables are essentially local & lexical, may have a harder time "getting it" than someone learning programming with Lisp as her first language. Things like list structure (including, yes, sharing structure), symbols (named objects with properties), dynamic scope/binding, `setq' (which can act on both global & local vars), and even REPL/interpretation can seem quite odd if you come to Lisp with only C or Java or ... eyes. Years ago I would have added higher-order and anonymous functions to the list. Even more years ago I would have added recursion to it. Depending on the languages you are used to, the list can vary. But Lisp is not C or Java or Haskell or ... FWIW, I came to Lisp (and to purely functional, logic-programming, and OOP languages) from Fortran. No recursion, no nothin' - nada. Another planet. But lots of variable-value/common-memory sharing.