From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs command frequencies: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:33:18 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <71639ffd-e2eb-406e-a32f-2cbd2a52a4f2@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> References: <74160b46-e541-436a-a776-c8bd53d6cd55@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <1f28a20e-0c9f-4478-a85c-27ae40ed7fc9@v16g2000prc.googlegroups.com> <4d476218-bd76-4d41-8a12-1428dfba9e9b@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <1226211980.88912@nntp.acecape.com> <7a377b0d-9a02-4cd9-947a-8f04676fad8c@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <87k5b9f6ns.fsf@mundaneum.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1226598011 20160 80.91.229.12 (13 Nov 2008 17:40:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:40:11 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 13 18:41:11 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1L0gBS-00077r-00 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:40:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54539 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L0gAJ-0004Wi-UZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:39:35 -0500 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs Original-Lines: 108 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.6.185.159 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1226586798 1820 127.0.0.1 (13 Nov 2008 14:33:18 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:33:18 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.6.185.159; posting-account=bRPKjQoAAACxZsR8_VPXCX27T2YcsyMA User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10_4_11; en) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.22, gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:164403 comp.emacs:97350 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:28:44 -0500 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:59747 Archived-At: On Nov 12, 4:52 am, S=C3=A9bastien Vauban wrote: > Hello, > > > - Commands that are repeated frequently should have the > > highest priority for one-button keys. That's why I > > personally think save-buffer and kill-this-buffer would be a > > waste for single keys. On the other hand other-window has a > > terrible default for the same reason. > > I totally share your point of view. And, as well, the list of > most frequently used functions that have really annoying > bindings. > > In my case -- OK, I know it is normally prohibited to use F1 to > F4 --, I've done the following mappings: > > =3D info > =3D save-buffer > =3D open-file (or `ffap', or even `anything', if present) > =3D delete-other-windows > =3D other-window > =3D call-last-kbd-macro > =3D recompile > =3D next-error > =3D undo > =3D my-kill-this-buffer > > I could not anymore miss almost any of them... your bindings reminds me of Microsoft ones. On their mid to high end keyboards starting about 2006, they have bindings to function keys with command names printed on them. Here's their bindings: F1 Help F2 Undo F3 Redo F4 New F5 Open F6 Close F7 Reply F8 Fwd F9 Send F10 Spell F11 Save F12 Print See photos here: http://xahlee.org/emacs/ms_keyboard/ms_natural_keyboard_40= 00.html i suppose under Microsoft Windows these works in most MS apps out of the box. I suppose these are carefully choosen to be most needed commands for vast majority of computer users today. 5 of the above you used in your personal map (help, save, open, undo, close). For me, 6 of them i'll find very useful (they are: undo, redo, new, open, close, save). We pretty much agree on what commands are useful to have a F key binding. For the others in MS, the Reply, Fwd, Send, Spell, Print, i can see they are quite useful in most apps, so i think they are sensible. I actually do use all these commands in variosu applications, except seldomly Print and Fwd but that's just me. i'm tempted to remap my app keys in emacs or os wide to go alone with it. Standards are a good thing. The key label does help in usability even for hard core programer. (e.g. i use dvorak since ~1993 and have extensive customized shortcuts. Am quite used to bindings without a label on key but still do find them convenient (i can even hunt and pect dvorak on qwerty)) The function keys, thru my 18 years of daily computer using and interest in keybindings, are supposed to be user defined, and it does not happen often that a app actually have a default binding for them. However, it tends to be the case that if there's no default binding, no user ever bothered to bind them, even among hard core programers or power users. Apple for a few years in late 1990s (i think) has F1 to F4 as undo, cut, copy, paste. I think it is Microsoft who first popularized making default bindings with all function keys, notably in Microsoft office suite of apps (on both Windows and Mac). As of today, late 2000s, i think both Apple and Microsoft realized that nobody is using or customizing function keys are these keys are supposed to be used as, both started to just bind them. For example, today, Mac OS X since about 2006, has half of the function keys prebind for system wide operations. (e.g. Expose, and for keyboard navigation of menu similar to Window's use of Alt key) In the case of Microsoft, they actually print command names on the function keys, and invinted the F Lock key. (i think the F Lock is a serious problem though. See article below.) further readings: =E2=80=A2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_keys =E2=80=A2 Difference Between Apple and PC keyboards http://xahlee.org/emacs/apple_pc_kb_diff.html =E2=80=A2 A Review of Microsoft Natural Keyboards http://xahlee.org/emacs/ms_keyboard/ms_natural_keyboard.html Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84