From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christoph Wedler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: In defense of Customize [was: Trying to right-align my window on startup] Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 18:50:27 +0100 Organization: SAP AG Message-ID: <6hrob2sniqk.fsf@sap.com> References: <3cec217d-8adb-4e6c-b239-eff0c8b520c9@googlegroups.com> <6hrwqhkjfv6.fsf@sap.com> <6hr38k5rd3n.fsf@sap.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1391191213 29115 80.91.229.3 (31 Jan 2014 18:00:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 18:00:13 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 31 19:00:20 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W9IO3-0001DM-TV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 19:00:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57402 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W9IO3-0005aE-Hc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 13:00:19 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-2.dfn.de!news.dfn.de!newsfeed.fsmpi.rwth-aachen.de!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!news1.dtag.de!news.sap-ag.de!news1!news.sap-ag.de!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 67 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: nKU7bvDXFB5LzogK6rDeaQ.news.sap-ag.de Original-X-Trace: news.sap-ag.de 1391190628 11583 nKU7bvDXFB5LzogK6rDeaQ.news.sap-ag.de (31 Jan 2014 17:50:28 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@sap.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 17:50:28 +0000 (UTC) Cancel-Lock: sha1:NskIlkMHhGZCy7ArvLlKrJ2/KcU= User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (windows-nt) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:203576 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:95845 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > I think that the problem of an abundance of options should be handled > otherwise, by better organizing/categorizing (and better design) of > options, and by better discovery/exploration/navigation tools. And the "better organizing/categorizing (and better design) of options" is IMHO a lot of work. And things become more complex for the design of a good UI for "user-centric" options if one has to be aware that the casual user might also change "advanced" user options. Let me come back to cc-styles.el. IMHO, a good customization UI would offer the user to choose a preferred style and a clever possibility to define their own style (see below). If users could also "UI-customize" c-hanging-braces-alist directly, the question arises whether this has preference to the corresponding setting of the style, what happens if the style / file changes, ... Now to the customization of a c indentation style: - when customizing the indentation style, the user is presented with a C++ code snippet which gives direct visual feedback of the chosen style - to define a style, the user simply changes the indentation of the c++ code snippet. Additionally, they can provide some c++ source files to adopt the indention engine This sounds complex enough, and I would not want to think of what should happen if the user also changes some advanced indentation options. >> >> (cus-set 'indent-tabs-mode t) >> >> (cus-set 'indent-tabs-mode nil :mode prog-mode) >> >> show me the easy code for setting indent-tabs-mode to t in >> general and to nil in all programming modes. > > I'm probably missing your point, but doesn't something like > this do that? > > (setq-default indent-tabs-mode t) > (add-hook 'prog-mode-hook > (lambda () (setq indent-tabs-mode nil))) Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I meant the customization to be robust, as Stefan pointed out: - one can easily remove this setting - it works well together with custom themes... > Personally, it took me a long time to start using Customize. > I did everything I needed only in Lisp. Now I use both. > I am glad to let Customize handle the stuff it is good at. Yeah. That was on of the reason why it took me so long to switch from XEmacs to Emacs. I wanted to get rid of most customizations (otherwise I would "shadow" too much of the new good stuff). And I wanted to do the customization via custom - actually via hand-written custom-theme functions. That being said: I really like Emacs-24.3! I regret not having switched earlier - most things are really much better. (Exceptions: mainly dired (+dired-x), and I understand Emacs' policy towards cl even less than I did before...) Regards Christoph