From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rusi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 07:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6ead936b-a752-4fd3-b9ef-1dbe2670ec26@googlegroups.com> References: <83h9rnp0yy.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3qnl70z.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <837fsfm7gq.fsf@gnu.org> <991d9b3f-e2f4-4977-9e78-99d39b04ede5@default> <53fc8fd4-2a3e-4937-bc17-6bf6d5bfff5a@googlegroups.com> <0d865b33-6751-4958-b61b-e0f2b3298a20@googlegroups.com> <83egmllmf0.fsf@gnu.org> <20150513074735.GB7600@tuxteam.de> <28a69757-3f3c-4cb1-bf1c-62e7e82be22d@googlegroups.com> <80ada056-d5b6-4a33-b714-63b216f17a7d@googlegroups.com> <83siaygf6h.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431698789 27089 80.91.229.3 (15 May 2015 14:06:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 14:06:29 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 15 16:06:20 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YtGFn-0002Ab-9R for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:06:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59798 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtGFm-0006pk-GW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 10:06:18 -0400 X-Received: by 10.182.206.102 with SMTP id ln6mr13486305obc.42.1431698516010; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:01:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.138.66 with SMTP id qo2mr823093igb.13.1431698515941; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.glorb.com!j8no1713855igd.0!news-out.google.com!kd3ni18058igb.0!nntp.google.com!j8no1713845igd.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=117.195.47.33; posting-account=mBpa7woAAAAGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 117.195.47.33 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Injection-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 14:01:55 +0000 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:212169 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104454 Archived-At: On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 7:14:52 PM UTC+5:30, Phil Lord wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> Its 2015. > >> You dont need to explain things like cursor-movement [do people read/need > >> notepad or gedit tutorials?] unless its rather non-standard. > > > > Emacs is neither notepad nor gedit, and we describe cursor motion > > because the ergonomic commands for that are "rather non-standard", or > > at least could be for people whose only experience is gedit or > > notepad. > > > >> Of course in 1975 it was different... > > > > It's different today as it was different in 1985. And we do mention > > the arrow keys and PageUp/PageDown before we describe the > > Emacs-specific bindings. So I really see no reason to complain, > > except if you have an agenda. > > > I suspect that Rusi's agenda is to make the Emacs tutorial as easy to > understand as possible. > > I've rarely managed to get one of my students to read the tutorial. I > would like to be able to change that situation. It's good to think of > how. Thanks Phil Only change I'd make to your representation of my 'agenda' is that I'd change 'easy' to 'useful' This in line with Stefan's understanding that different audiences would likely require different starting points. eg For git there was a "Git for Computer Scientists" Presumably a CSist is one who would understand (and feel pleased with understanding) graphs, dags etc Putting aside the naivete of that view the point is that some people may like to start looking at git 'as CSists' and others may not Likewise emacs "Emacs for typing tamil" (to pick up an adjacent thread) is likely to read differently from "Emacs for C programmers" from "Master GTD with emacs and org mode" from "Live online inside emacs! -- gnus, erc, sx"