From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why emacs have not native language menu Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:55:06 +0900 Message-ID: <6BCA330E-0E87-4C24-8F99-79E8BF6A1956@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <46A49912.9030203@luxdo.jp> <7056BAE9-002B-46B7-A60A-9EDE375392EE@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <86FA8DD5-B87E-4E64-90C8-04AA81B9469A@Web.DE> <873aze3qtf.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <87y7h53mjp.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <87d4yhbxiw.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <0D3378B6-0047-4E19-9F34-1047AED11F0A@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1185346568 4689 80.91.229.12 (25 Jul 2007 06:56:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 06:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Alexey Pustyntsev Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 25 08:56:07 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IDamw-0007RS-IY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:56:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDamw-0008WB-3s for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:56:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IDamG-00087f-KR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:55:20 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IDamF-00086j-6P for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:55:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDamE-00086c-T2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:55:18 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp8.tiki.ne.jp ([218.40.30.79]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IDamC-0004IX-Uv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:55:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.11.4] (pl030.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp [210.136.196.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp8.tiki.ne.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6P6tDem092569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:55:13 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from fusion@mx6.tiki.ne.jp) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 5.3-5.4 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:46024 Archived-At: On 25 juil. 07, at 15:44, Alexey Pustyntsev wrote: > Jean-Christophe Helary writes: > >> It is just the same for natural languages. And since obviously >> English is not your native language you should be much more aware of >> that than native English users who obviously have no "need" for >> learning other languages since the world comes to them in English... > > Speaking about computers, programming etc, I hardly understand > why people won't need to learn English if Emacs is localized. They > need to learn it anyway, needn't they? No they don't. Code is just arbitrary strings that mean only what the manual (in whatever language it is written) says they mean. Confusing code (that looks like English words) and English is the biggest mistake people make when learning computer languages. And it seems like some members of this list have yet to make the difference between emacs "function-name" that looks like English and plain English. > Hence, there is not much point in > localizing Emacs, unless you want to make things more complex. But is > the expense really worth it? I am afraid not. There are more important > problems to be solved, like printing international characters > correctly (htmlizing a buffer doesn't seem to be Ok, the output may > be ugly). This is, of course, my personal opinion. Very good. You know enough English to find your way in emacs. Reverse question: is emacs the reason why you learned English ? Is emacs the only activity that involves your using English ? Is programming so ? Can you imagine contexts where emacs can be used in a linguistically "neutral" environment ? Can you imagine that using emacs in this linguistically "neutral" environment would benefit from actual native linguistic information ? If you can't imagine that then you are right: you should focus on other issues. Jean-Christophe Helary ps: did it ever occur to you that some massively succesful programming languages originated from non-English cultural/linguistic environments ?