From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rusi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: using use-package Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 18:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <66dceb24-5fef-4316-8c8b-e9a3e62b0fb8@googlegroups.com> References: <20150805055619.13567.17B26335@ahiker.mooo.com> <17131863-cbb8-4a85-8470-490fe9a0c0d4@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1438824928 13438 80.91.229.3 (6 Aug 2015 01:35:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 01:35:28 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 06 03:35:23 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZNA5a-0005Y2-63 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Aug 2015 03:35:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43007 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZNA5Z-0005XQ-6t for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 21:35:21 -0400 X-Received: by 10.182.45.138 with SMTP id n10mr10845410obm.4.1438824866953; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 18:34:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.50.167 with SMTP id d7mr7466igo.10.1438824866515; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 18:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.glorb.com!f3no8143952igg.0!news-out.google.com!o13ni7198igw.0!nntp.google.com!pg9no7456400igb.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=117.195.51.203; posting-account=mBpa7woAAAAGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 117.195.51.203 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Injection-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2015 01:34:26 +0000 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:213998 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:106283 Archived-At: On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 10:54:33 PM UTC+5:30, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > On 2015-08-05 09:34 -0700, Rusi wrote: > > > > That way lies Ubuntu - an ancient African word meaning "much simpler > > > than the simplest possible". > > > I get that you are making a joke... But I dont get it :-( > > Is it that... > > - Using use-package oversimplifies? > > Maybe not right now, but promoting it as the one and true way of > configuring emacs would eventually lead to a state where some things are > no longer possible, or (and this is the Ubuntu way) they are _officially > supposed_ to be possible, but because hardly anybody does them they're > untested and unsupported by the developers. Strange logic. Putting in the core is rather some distance from promoting as the "one true way" Analogy: Some ifs can be shortened to when/unless/and etc but not all. Should when/unless/and be banned since people forget how to use if? > > Emacs is full of interdependencies by its nature. Things like adaptive > fill, global font lock, imenu, work slightly differently in each mode > depending on configuration of that mode. There's a plausible argument > that this is a misdesign, but it is far too deeply ingrained now to > change, IMO. > > Also the use of dynamic scoping plays into this. Much code was > intentionally written so that the way to change its behavior (sometimes > the only way) is to let-bind a global variable. case-fold is a classic > example. It is not clear to me how partitioning configuration into > packages can deal with this. Old users of emacs forget that many potential new users never cross the potential barrier to becoming actual users because of initial (includes init!) complexity