Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Johan Bockgård]

<brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn> writes:

> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar? 

Patches are welcome.

etc/TODO:

    [...]

    ** Add horizontal scroll bars.

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Mathias Dahl]

<brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn> writes:

> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar? 

Probably because noone needed it so much that he/she decided to
implement it.

> Sometimes I have to use other editor to edit something just because
> emacs has not horizontal scroll bar and it is not very convenient to
> do some tasks.

When I started using Emacs I also thought I needed a horizontal scroll
bar, but in reality I have never needed one. I either use
`scroll-left' and `scroll-right' (I use the Ctrl + PageDown and Ctrl +
Page Up keybindings) when text is truncated or I let the text be
wrapped.

Have you tried `scroll-left' and `scroll-right'? Does it not work for
you? If so, what are the use cases where you would need a horizontal
scroll bar?

RE: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[brianjiang]

Thanks all.

I tried "scroll-left" and "scroll-right" today,  and found (scroll-left 1) and (scroll-right 1) [or "c-u 1 c-x <" and "c-u 1 c-x >] work for me (e.g., review the sdelta files). I think I will add quick key-bindings for them. 

But I still think a horizontal bar can be very useful. Maybe many emacs experts don't use mouse at all :) But for many people, mouse is very convenient for some tasks.

Also, I think "Truncate long lines in this buffer" is good enough too. It is not "word wrap". It truncate the words at any position (e.g., "words" can be truncate to "wo" in current line and "ords" in the next line.) It is really make the text difficult to read. Any solution for this? (auto-fill can wrap the text in a word basis, but 1). It doesn't wrap the word based on the window width, 2). It will modify the file while we don't want to change anything.)

Regards,
Brian 

-----Original Message-----
From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+brianjiang=gdnt.com.cn@gnu.org [mailto:help-gnu-emacs-bounces+brianjiang=gdnt.com.cn@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Mathias Dahl
Sent: 2007年7月3日 15:37
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

<brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn> writes:

> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar? 

Probably because noone needed it so much that he/she decided to implement it.

> Sometimes I have to use other editor to edit something just because 
> emacs has not horizontal scroll bar and it is not very convenient to 
> do some tasks.

When I started using Emacs I also thought I needed a horizontal scroll bar, but in reality I have never needed one. I either use `scroll-left' and `scroll-right' (I use the Ctrl + PageDown and Ctrl + Page Up keybindings) when text is truncated or I let the text be wrapped.

Have you tried `scroll-left' and `scroll-right'? Does it not work for you? If so, what are the use cases where you would need a horizontal scroll bar?
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Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Amy Templeton]

<brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn> wrote:
> Also, I think "Truncate long lines in this buffer" is good enough
> too. It is not "word wrap". It truncate the words at any position
> (e.g., "words" can be truncate to "wo" in current line and "ords"
> in the next line.) It is really make the text difficult to read.
> Any solution for this? (auto-fill can wrap the text in a word
> basis, but 1). It doesn't wrap the word based on the window
> width, 2). It will modify the file while we don't want to change
> anything.)

There's a mode called longlines-mode you might like. You seem to be
working with files that for some reason can't be wrapped, which in
and of itself tends to make things difficult. What this mode does
is to change the *appearance* of the buffer such that long lines
are wrapped at the fill-column, but in actuality it takes an actual
newline (<RET>) to finish a line when the actual file is saved. I'd
suggest checking it out (M-x longlines-mode <RET>).

Amy

-- 
You can learn many things from children.  How much patience you have,
for instance.
                -- Franklin P. Jones

RE: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[brianjiang]

Thanks Amy! longlines-mode is exactly what I need. And I configure 'longlines-wrap-follows-window-size' to 't'.

"In Long Lines mode, long lines are wrapped if they extend beyond
`fill-column'.  The soft newlines used for line wrapping will not
show up when the text is yanked or saved to disk."

Regards,
Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+brianjiang=gdnt.com.cn@gnu.org [mailto:help-gnu-emacs-bounces+brianjiang=gdnt.com.cn@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Amy Templeton
Sent: 2007年7月4日 0:01
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

<brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn> wrote:
> Also, I think "Truncate long lines in this buffer" is good enough too. 
> It is not "word wrap". It truncate the words at any position (e.g., 
> "words" can be truncate to "wo" in current line and "ords"
> in the next line.) It is really make the text difficult to read.
> Any solution for this? (auto-fill can wrap the text in a word basis, 
> but 1). It doesn't wrap the word based on the window width, 2). It 
> will modify the file while we don't want to change
> anything.)

There's a mode called longlines-mode you might like. You seem to be working with files that for some reason can't be wrapped, which in and of itself tends to make things difficult. What this mode does is to change the *appearance* of the buffer such that long lines are wrapped at the fill-column, but in actuality it takes an actual newline (<RET>) to finish a line when the actual file is saved. I'd suggest checking it out (M-x longlines-mode <RET>).

Amy

--
You can learn many things from children.  How much patience you have, for instance.
                -- Franklin P. Jones


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Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[thorne]

<brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn> writes:

> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar? 

The real question is, why does it need _any_ scroll bars, horizontal
or otherwise?

-- 
þ    theron tlåx    þ
(compose-mail (concat "thorne@" (rot13 "gvzoeny") ".net"))

Re: Save on losing focus in Emacs

[Tassilo Horn]

Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null> writes:

Hi Tim,

> However, two functions which may be useful are visible-frame-list and
> filtered-frame-list. To make use of these, I think you would dneed to
> use run-with -idle-timer. Yo could possibly define a function that
> looks to see if visible-frame-list returns anything. If it doesn't,
> then save any buffers with unsaved changes.

One problem might be that the timer has to run very often to save
immediately after losing focus.

> The problem with this is that if you have a big enough display, you
> may have both your emacs frame and some other application both
> 'visible', but focus is in the other application. In which case, this
> wouldn't work.

Hm, I use a tiling window manager, so most of the time all frames are
visible unless they're on another workspace.

> Alternatively, you might be able to use mouse-position to determine
> when the mouse is not in an emacs frame - the docs don't seem very
> clear on this and you may need to experiment to see what this function
> actually returns if it is called when the mouse focus is on another
> app. Its likely emacs will report the last frame the mouse was focused
> on.

I don't use a mouse frequently. Most of the time the pointer is in a
corner of the screen.

> P.S. I do find the OPs example a bit odd. I've used Emacs to develop with for
> years and often need to switch to a browser or some other app and I've never
> ever lost any work.

You got him wrong. Let's assume you edit a html-page in emacs and switch
to the browser to view you changes. But, damn, you forgot to save the
buffer, so you have to switch back to emacs, `C-x C-s' and switch back
to the browser and refresh again. If it had saved your changes
automatically when losing focus, that would not be needed.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Chuck Norris sleeps with a pillow under his gun. 

Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[brianjiang]

Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar? 

Sometimes I have to use other editor to edit something just because
emacs has not horizontal scroll bar and it is not very convenient to do
some tasks. Is there any consideration that not having a horizontal
scroll bar for emacs?  I know XEmacs have horizontal scroll bar. Why not
introduce one for GNUEmacs?

Regards,
Brain

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 02.07.2007 um 17:01 schrieb <brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn>:

> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

Because text is either truncated or broken into the next line. Or am  
I missing something?

--
Greetings

   Pete

   It's not the valleys in life I dread so much as the dips.
                     -- Garfield

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Peter Dyballa wrote:
> 
> Am 02.07.2007 um 17:01 schrieb <brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn>:
> 
>> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?
> 
> Because text is either truncated or broken into the next line. Or am I 
> missing something?


Maybe that a horizontal scroll bar would be useful when the text is 
truncated? ;-)

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 02.07.2007 um 18:25 schrieb Lennart Borgman (gmail):

> Peter Dyballa wrote:
>> Am 02.07.2007 um 17:01 schrieb <brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn>:
>>> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?
>> Because text is either truncated or broken into the next line. Or  
>> am I missing something?
>
>
> Maybe that a horizontal scroll bar would be useful when the text is  
> truncated? ;-)
>

Oh yes: then you could scroll away the point of truncation and would  
see a clear and empty line!

--
Greetings

   Pete

Without vi there is only GNU Emacs

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Pascal Bourguignon]

"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> Peter Dyballa wrote:
>> Am 02.07.2007 um 17:01 schrieb <brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn>:
>> 
>>> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?
>> Because text is either truncated or broken into the next line. Or am
>> I missing something?
>
>
> Maybe that a horizontal scroll bar would be useful when the text is
> truncated? ;-)

But you don't need it to scroll!  Try: 

C-u 20 C-x <
C-u 20 C-x >


Here is the first form I have in by ~/.emacs:

(mapcar (lambda (f) (when (fboundp f) (funcall f -1)))
	'(scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))

; yes, I've got it even before (require 'cl)



-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/

NOTE: The most fundamental particles in this product are held
together by a "gluing" force about which little is currently known
and whose adhesive power can therefore not be permanently
guaranteed.

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Dieter Wilhelm]

Pascal Bourguignon <pjb@informatimago.com> writes:

> Here is the first form I have in by ~/.emacs:
>
> (mapcar (lambda (f) (when (fboundp f) (funcall f -1)))
> 	'(scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))

That is very nice, thanks, I adapted it to my .emacs as well.  But is
the fboundp check not a bit superfluous with this concise list?

By the way, I'm just curious whether this might be more elegant, would
you mind doing the same with a macro definition?

-- 
    Best wishes

    H. Dieter Wilhelm
    Darmstadt, Germany

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[David Kastrup]

Dieter Wilhelm <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

> Pascal Bourguignon <pjb@informatimago.com> writes:
>
>> Here is the first form I have in by ~/.emacs:
>>
>> (mapcar (lambda (f) (when (fboundp f) (funcall f -1)))
>> 	'(scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))

(let ((h '(scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode)))
  (run-hook-with-args 'h -1))

> That is very nice, thanks, I adapted it to my .emacs as well.  But
> is the fboundp check not a bit superfluous with this concise list?
>
> By the way, I'm just curious whether this might be more elegant, would
> you mind doing the same with a macro definition?

A definition for the purpose of an action is never elegant.

(macrolet ((h (&rest lst) (cons 'progn
                                (mapcar (lambda (x) (list x -1)) lst))))
          (h scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))


-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[David Kastrup]

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> Dieter Wilhelm <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

>> By the way, I'm just curious whether this might be more elegant, would
>> you mind doing the same with a macro definition?
>
> A definition for the purpose of an action is never elegant.
>
> (macrolet ((h (&rest lst) (cons 'progn
>                                 (mapcar (lambda (x) (list x -1)) lst))))
>           (h scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))

Perhaps more macroesque would be

(macrolet ((h (lst) `(progn ,@(mapcar (lambda (x) `(,x -1)) lst))))
          (h (scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode)))


-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Dieter Wilhelm]

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

Hi David

> Dieter Wilhelm <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:
>
>> Pascal Bourguignon <pjb@informatimago.com> writes:
>>
>>> Here is the first form I have in by ~/.emacs:
>>>
>>> (mapcar (lambda (f) (when (fboundp f) (funcall f -1)))
>>> 	'(scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))
>
> (let ((h '(scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode)))
>   (run-hook-with-args 'h -1))

Ahh, not bad either, thanks.  Why is it necessary to provide a symbol
to the run-hook-with-args function?  Is it not possible to "overload"
functions with various arguments in lisp?

(run-hook-with-args '(scroll-bar-mode tool-bar-mode) 1)
(run-hook-with-args sroll-bar-mode 1)

>
>> That is very nice, thanks, I adapted it to my .emacs as well.  But
>> is the fboundp check not a bit superfluous with this concise list?
>>
>> By the way, I'm just curious whether this might be more elegant, would
>> you mind doing the same with a macro definition?
>
> A definition for the purpose of an action is never elegant.
>
> (macrolet ((h (&rest lst) (cons 'progn
>                                 (mapcar (lambda (x) (list x -1)) lst))))
>           (h scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))

I'm sorry, I've to chew on it for a while, I'll ask/comment later.

-- 
    Best wishes

    H. Dieter Wilhelm
    Darmstadt, Germany

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[David Kastrup]

Dieter Wilhelm <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

> David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> (let ((h '(scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode)))
>>   (run-hook-with-args 'h -1))
>
> Ahh, not bad either, thanks.  Why is it necessary to provide a
> symbol to the run-hook-with-args function?

Because that's what it expects.  It has to use the name to look up
local hook bindings if existing.

> Is it not possible to "overload" functions with various arguments in
> lisp?

Only when coding this explicitly.

> (run-hook-with-args '(scroll-bar-mode tool-bar-mode) 1)
> (run-hook-with-args sroll-bar-mode 1)

It is not really prepared to do this, and actually my above trickery
is an abuse of the function.

>> A definition for the purpose of an action is never elegant.

Make that "of a one-time action".

>> (macrolet ((h (&rest lst) (cons 'progn
>>                                 (mapcar (lambda (x) (list x -1)) lst))))
>>           (h scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))
>
> I'm sorry, I've to chew on it for a while, I'll ask/comment later.

There is a reason why one avoids macros when they are not really
necessary.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Andreas Röhler]

Am Montag, 2. Juli 2007 18:49 schrieb Pascal Bourguignon:
> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> > Peter Dyballa wrote:
> >> Am 02.07.2007 um 17:01 schrieb <brianjiang@gdnt.com.cn>:
> >>> Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?
> >>
> >> Because text is either truncated or broken into the next line. Or am
> >> I missing something?
> >
> > Maybe that a horizontal scroll bar would be useful when the text is
> > truncated? ;-)
>
> But you don't need it to scroll!  Try:
>
> C-u 20 C-x <
> C-u 20 C-x >
>
>
> Here is the first form I have in by ~/.emacs:
>
> (mapcar (lambda (f) (when (fboundp f) (funcall f -1)))
> 	'(scroll-bar-mode menu-bar-mode tool-bar-mode))
>
> ; yes, I've got it even before (require 'cl)


Thanks a lot for the tip.

Searching the web with Emacs-w3m, mouse-navigation at
least is an alternative, because it jumps large
portions precisely: then a horizontal scroll would be
helpful too.

Andreas Roehler

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Gordon Beaton]

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:49:08 +0200, Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
> But you don't need it to scroll!  Try: 

By that reasoning, why should emacs have vertical scroll bars when you
can do M-v, C-v etc?

/gordon

-- 

Re: Why doesn't Emacs have a horizontal scroll bar?

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 05.07.2007 um 09:11 schrieb Gordon Beaton:

> On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:49:08 +0200, Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
>> But you don't need it to scroll!  Try:
>
> By that reasoning, why should emacs have vertical scroll bars when you
> can do M-v, C-v etc?
>

Because a *shell* buffer, for example, can be so large that the line  
counting in mode-line stops and then the shape of the scroll bar  
gives a hint where the cursor just might be ... And sometimes it can  
be useful to jump somewhere into the buffer by using the scroll bar  
when you know that no particularly unique text can be found there.

--
Greetings

   Pete

Never be led astray onto the path of virtue