From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stefan Monnier " Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Software/HD ecology (was Re:...Bug in Emacs 21.3.50) Date: 12 Dec 2002 15:20:15 -0500 Organization: Yale University Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <5lwumfgfb4.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> References: <041220020952400758%ajanta@no.spam> <56cfb0e3.0212041458.5eab182a@posting.google.com> <061220020416350201%ajanta@no.spam> <071220021155280606%ajanta@no.spam> <5ld6obj8il.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <091220021652087216%ajanta@no.spam> <111220021101520860%ajanta@no.spam> <111220021253524057%ajanta@no.spam> <5l65u0i8zj.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <111220022053507599%ajanta@no.spam> <5l1y4niayi.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu> <121220021352537730%ajanta@no.spam> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1039725073 22809 80.91.224.249 (12 Dec 2002 20:31:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 20:31:13 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18MZzD-0005vb-00 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:31:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18MZye-0000Eu-07 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:30:36 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ycc.yale.edu!rum.cs.yale.edu!rum.cs.yale.edu Original-Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.apps,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.text.tex,gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 45 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: rum.cs.yale.edu User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: rum.cs.yale.edu X-Original-Trace: 12 Dec 2002 15:20:16 -0500, rum.cs.yale.edu Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu comp.sys.mac.apps:348740 gnu.emacs.help:108056 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:4587 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:4587 I fail like I can't have a rational argument because you keep shifting the focus from one issue to another. For example you say: > Obviously, I have failed to express myself. As you said, emacs has > close to 3,000 files. If I install ten similarly large packages, that > is 30,000 files. I don't want to get to know them personally. What I > want is to be able to install and uninstall such packages cleanly and > safely. Which I addressed with: >> All under the single `Emacs.app' directory. Seems clean enough to me. But then you replied by shifting to yet-another point: > I mentioned that as a different kind of bug: 3 files where 1 is needed, > 16 MB of wasted space. As for: > At present the languages number in 10's but soon it may be 100's. I am > glad they are included. It is not clutter in the *distribution*, but it > becomes clutter in my *system* if I am stuck with it all with no tools > to safely select *my* language(s). What's clutterish about them ? Have you bothered to take a look at the lisp/languages directory I mentioned earlier ? Why does this support for other languages bother you, whereas support for TPU-emulation, RMail, Simula, etc... doesn't ? Do you intend to learn Simula ? > An analogy might be to ship a fat distribution with binaries for every > cpu architecture and OS, and expect a user to keep everything because > it is a lot of work to separate them. That would be stupid. IMHO it > would be equally stupid to force people to keep 100's of languages they > have no prayer of learning/understanding/needing in one lifetime. I can see it as waste, but I still completely fail to see what's clutterish about it. The only thing I understand is that you have no clue where to find what in all those files. Whether that's bad or not depends on how much effort you've put into it. Stefan