From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 04:23:31 +0900 Message-ID: <565181C2-0B57-4C46-B6F3-212CE2940C98@icloud.com> References: <20190514235412.kncazq45szlum2gr@Ergus> <83v9yb92c7.fsf@gnu.org> <878sv7sp3r.fsf@telefonica.net> <83r28z8zl9.fsf@gnu.org> <20190515210924.sijzy6mnpgzkt4gm@Ergus> <83ftpecwu1.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516161408.4dov3dwk5h4yoizn@Ergus> <838sv6cmwt.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516202327.5cgy2s4kppy3ahxa@Ergus> <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net> <3210C8E9-7A74-47D6-81A0-470948E6D09C@gmail.com> <87r28xq0j1.fsf@telefonica.net> <576240a5-c92a-5cf8-898b-43f214a2b580@yandex.ru> <83imu9beyn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="236599"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 19 21:24:01 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hSRPc-000zNh-DC for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 21:24:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52416 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hSRPa-00059F-Nt for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 15:23:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40464) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hSRPJ-00058w-67 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 15:23:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hSRPH-0007z0-A8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 15:23:41 -0400 Original-Received: from pv50p00im-zteg10021401.me.com ([17.58.6.47]:48763) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hSRPF-0007xg-Fj for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2019 15:23:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=04042017; t=1558293814; bh=3WsEsBwXTO9JsGUUU0HUHSJ1eAagSQi6YXnSuzXPRpc=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=BzoYTTAOm/JVJNOJUxRJzsARPjsczHO/Bnx5nKu/8bs0Tp16l6p1/GE+zg3EGNy74 2nFqQqxdZ+mwVlJXAMlqk74tqEt16XCHrKLuEkc2pPR9J6/oek+gVzlQl359DAAG4+ P3CTUSCF/yyLURJeBoWskkmAfiSad9zOABZsqQRcT5f9Xiolm6HYIruYb7J4YyaFVu +CbBKEocFKa4cu6C3U/OUnJfwAPuRpXN30CuZbxI/zfU+r7EFkst88LmXrj2kJzVbI cdp+EmL9XduiDUB6OalsCa3QVsf3aH/FbFZ0RAqQdu+ZPI97y9F6XYKwzSPrAqf21E bRf7sThaA3ptw== Original-Received: from [192.168.0.11] (unknown [1.230.108.64]) by pv50p00im-zteg10021401.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5807648019F; Sun, 19 May 2019 19:23:34 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-05-19_13:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=609 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1812120000 definitions=main-1905190141 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 17.58.6.47 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120557 Archived-At: > 2019. 5. 20. =EC=98=A4=EC=A0=84 3:35, Stefan Monnier = =EC=9E=91=EC=84=B1: >=20 >>> Vim is consistent. >> So is Emacs. >=20 > In terms of key-bindings, Emacs's scheme is not as regular as VI. >=20 > While we can argue that the various VI emulators are just trying to > provide for those users who like VI, the number of other "alternative > set of keybindings" (god-mode and several others) out there shows that > there's a need for something else. >=20 > I think one of the main differences (besides the fact that it's modal, > obviously) is that VI has prefix commands like `d` which Emacs lacks. > That helps make things regular/orthogonal. The fact that vim allows composing commands make vim =E2=80=98feel=E2=80=99= consistent (and which is a good thing) because vim doesn=E2=80=99t have = to rely on ad-hoc conventions. Vim changes the convention to the =E2=80=98text object=E2=80=99 concept, = which reduces the number of keybindings and make different keys have no = (or little) relationship between each other, which means the key don=E2=80= =99t have to satisfy a certain condition to feel =E2=80=98consistent=E2=80= =99. I=E2=80=99m actually using = [composable.el](https://github.com/paldepind/composable.el) currently, = and also found [objed](https://github.com/clemera/objed) while surfing = the web yesterday. Would it be hard to have composable bindings as an emacs default = keybinding scheme? > `other-frame-window` is one package that tries to add such a prefix > command (actually a pair of such) to Emacs and it's not trivial to > implement. It'd be good to extend Emacs to provide better support > for that. >=20 >=20 > Stefan >=20 >=20