From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Gene Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Where is Emacs Lisp taught ? Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53705d26-8a69-4453-aed9-ab72a0cd139e@googlegroups.com> References: <5B8BFDC9-A07B-48FE-8C97-1BB0B84E5577@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1540577303 29347 195.159.176.226 (26 Oct 2018 18:08:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:08:23 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:05:14 +0000 User-Agent: G2/1.0 To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 26 20:08:19 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gG6Wv-0007Xg-0S for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 20:08:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33674 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gG6Z1-00034U-Ho for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:10:27 -0400 X-Received: by 2002:ae9:f702:: with SMTP id s2-v6mr3879806qkg.11.1540577114536; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:05:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a0c:98c6:: with SMTP id g6mr57597qvd.1.1540577114276; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!e5-v6no5517344qtr.0!news-out.google.com!o27-v6ni13706qtk.1!nntp.google.com!e5-v6no5517334qtr.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=72.43.228.70; posting-account=xePGxQoAAAAgJalA5zaHmrGIX9Wk_gLW Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.43.228.70 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:224296 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118425 Archived-At: On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 12:02:59 PM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote: > I did such a course at UU in 2013-02-01 - it > was called "Advanced Functional Programming". >=20 > The Lisp wasn't Elisp tho but CL with the > SBCL compiler. >=20 > And I think it is better to teach CL than > Elisp, in all honesty... Having read the other responses posted thus far,=20 this seems like the best grafting point from which to ramify another branch of thought for our consideration. Too many CS and math types=20 -- both perverted by these pro forma, would-be `formal' would-be sciences = --=20 reveal their theoretical biases, paradigms, and frameworks by such comment= s. Elisp is NOT merely an `inferior' lisp which `sucks';=20 it IS a top-notch, SUPERIOR Domain-Specific Language. ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_language#Other_examples IMNSHO, dumb asses compare the execution of lisp code against unflattering = and bone-headed standards when they use `programming languages' -- such as = C -- rather manual-mode TYPING which the users of OTHER text editors MUST p= erform manually BECAUSE their text editor either has NO `extension language= ' or one which SUCKS as bad as elisp is libeled and defamed through compari= sons with general-purpose programming languages. In this regard, I regard it more-foolish to cast elisp as an inferior lisp = or Functional Language than it is to portray it as a Superior Domain-Specif= ic Language coincidentally supporting the functional paradigm and the lisp-= family -- minus Logo -- supporting syntax which facilitates meta-programmin= g, macros, and all sorts of wholesome goodness. When I'm using emacs it's not the speed of the elisp execution which matter= s; it's MY speed -- my Personal Operating System Speed -- that matters! How much time and personal processing am I saving by using elisp as a Domai= n Specific Language which saves me time and hassles I'd have to endure as O= pportunity Costs if I were to use another whole tool box of non-interoperab= le apps ... most of which can't be (as) easily automated or yolked together= as elisp packages and libraries? The missing Course is NOT one which emphasizes `functional' this or `lispin= ess' that ... it's one which keeps it's eyes upon the prize: "Exploiting th= e hell out of Emacs Lisp as a Domain-specific language which saves YOU time= by allowing YOU to outsource and delegate time-consuming, tedious, otherwi= se-MANUAL operations!" Computer time is cheaper than dirt; YOUR TIME is priceless. The Domain-specific Language Point-of-View and Paradigm allows YOU to make = better value judgments than other PoVs which emphasize less-important facto= rs and considerations. Think about it! Cheers! Gene