From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: on adding a function call to a s-exp Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 09:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53126606-4d8c-46d3-aa9f-f27879885b02@default> References: <864libzkem.fsf@gmail.com> <86zi026stt.fsf@gmail.com> <86wov55r33.fsf@gmail.com> <87o9ggdolh.fsf@telefonica.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1528820178 16667 195.159.176.226 (12 Jun 2018 16:16:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:16:18 +0000 (UTC) To: =?utf-8?B?w5NzY2FyIEZ1ZW50ZXM=?= , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 12 18:16:14 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fSlxt-0004F5-PF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 18:16:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57259 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fSm00-0003ey-L8 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:18:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53508) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fSlzR-0003es-HR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:17:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fSlzN-0006fe-IA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:17:49 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:51026) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fSlzN-0006eW-Au for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:17:45 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w5CGB4pf070825; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:17:42 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=vDo6AvOWWPoxJNtFihSXiRySnwLTV7T58CLkkdh7ALE=; b=VDLhbDVc4T2FnHKwAok3yDYvjPGtepWmm0gtN392aFGUPqlLTi+WfARQCDjXPuCA6kU+ Fx+hHDxybLnzRILCL5I2r0SgqkvCGPGky1D1b7peYQEbQNlnjEOhCt48Dm+TxJoRUZMJ 0JBS+yb6Ken0Khqi3QlxuHVruAWu5CuQwE7aKh4ezT4lNtyS0UQhCCSnIOR/ogbSTPSf +XeVbxL2S3u8WSR3XHqdKY0H9icCUnemAK6Gu6irQ3pcXu6FfvTBky2J2FUwW4g2gIoO mTmBE39x0F6ON8QtYG+1oWdSYlNrO9kG9DR/fU2optEPil/VoAUmCDyP9s3IbwQ3Fx8s Bg== Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2jgecxj08v-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:17:42 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w5CGHfRQ008641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:17:41 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w5CGHeWO024629; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:17:40 GMT In-Reply-To: <87o9ggdolh.fsf@telefonica.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4690.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8921 signatures=668702 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=651 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1805220000 definitions=main-1806120182 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.78 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:117113 Archived-At: > electric-pair-mode offers a tiny fraction of the features of paredit. > The later takes some time to learn, but in my experience the effort > pays off if you work with lispy languages. FWIW (he ducks), I work with a Lispy language, Elisp ;-). And I don't use any "structured-editing" feature (crutch / ball-&-chain) such as `paredit' or `electric-pair-mode'. I'm non-electric all the way. I use only (1) the usual keys to indent, move over & around sexps, transpose sexps, etc.; (2) `show-paren-mode', `blink-matching-paren'; and (3) (yes!) sometimes a mouse (double-click sexp select, copy-kill-yank). I've never had any problem with unbalanced parentheses, brackets, braces, angle-brackets, double-quotes, etc. Really _not_ a big deal, IMHO. To me, having an editor automatically insert a closing delimiter each time I type an opening delimiter is a bother, not an aid. Back in the 1980s (!) I briefly tried such slurp-barfing "structured-editing" gimmicks. Abandoned them quickly. I suppose one could become accustomed/habituated to using them, and then see them as essential, but no one I knew ever did. These features originated outside Emacs, BTW, in experimental editors that were extremely rigid, based on the brilliant idea that editing operations should always leave text "valid" in some sense. These were not editors designed & developed by users! It was thought that users should be prevented/protected from writing code that is not syntactically well formed. That was supposed to improve software reliability and programming productivity. No. Users should instead have aids to (1) tell whether code is well formed and (2) make it well formed (in different ways). (Just one experience and one opinion.)