From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ken Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs keyboard Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 09:43:05 -0500 Message-ID: <50E98D79.9060204@mousecar.com> References: <878v88h276.fsf@debian.lduros.net> Reply-To: gebser@mousecar.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1357483405 17494 80.91.229.3 (6 Jan 2013 14:43:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:43:25 +0000 (UTC) To: James Freer , GNU Emacs List Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 06 15:43:41 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TrrRp-0000Ys-GU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 15:43:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52757 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrrRZ-0004Dl-Sw for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 09:43:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48097) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrrRT-00049y-RI for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 09:43:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrrRS-0006Gz-Jy for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 09:43:15 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195]:56387) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TrrRS-0006Gs-DY for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 09:43:14 -0500 Original-Received: from dellap.mousecar.net (dsl093-011-016.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.11.16]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LxxCW-1Sxk8V32rk-0158l6; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 09:43:11 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.11) Gecko/20121120 Thunderbird/10.0.11 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:f/W4cOJYi7yhrgquSzD08daD/hxHOk+NLdvZMhSN3+D Ggp5ReHjl8m3BsEoDByCdi/wpKuqlzXxl9dpSoG+OzMZqQp9MV 76eSgJLMvRq/GyqvssoUSfHMIYpFC2BsP+e8+egWdMNJBPbN6G 9FMXqDClJzlHBE/EaAPN+w/jF4gocxep9QPs3hwPWYIeM97+sz hXg41qyHgCUjYD+q9yp1PzlQlFOtngpsMAv1q3BmoUoQ1Rhqzt 9M3LKwN4WhU2QumS+MZViVY2in48mHOzzd/3RHr3J7vhPpq1jf m7vfRULGf0qXr4suzPno5WEJe/O0ZT0b14nich03vdQQJMWF7J jgPlCBLdHDF4JdbpziJJOKCWt54toD0ZlpO8Exj1t X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 74.208.4.195 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:88478 Archived-At: On 01/05/2013 04:05 AM James Freer wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2013, Loic J. Duros wrote: > >> dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) writes: >> >>> Sun (er, oracle) makes that type of keyboard, but >>> also makes one with the control key immediately left >>> of the "A" key, where it was on the original >>> teletype-like machine (name escapes me now, but it >>> ended in "33"). >> >> What's the difference with moving the ctrl key to the caps lock key on a >> standard keyboard? >> http://emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey > > It's not a big difference... just preference - less far to stretch the > fingers. Capslock always used to be the location of the ctrl key on > early keyboards which happened to suit those that use the wordstar > keybindings (which are the most efficient in professional writers > opinion... and mine). A lot of emacs users like them swapped for emacs > bindings. Although i've got used to using the right ctrl key for > wordstar mode. > > james Amen (or +1 if you prefer) on both counts. Having learned to type on an actual typewriter and having started into computers with those old teletype machines, and then into PCs with DOS 1.0, I appreciate being able to have the Ctrl next to the 'A' key. That's where it was on the first PCs and where it stayed until, perhaps just coincidentally but perhaps not coincidentally, Microsoft came out with Word. At the time Wordstar was the top editor. But because using Wordstar entailed using the Ctrl key a lot, moving it to the keyboard's hinterlands made it difficult to use and it thereby lost a lot of market share to Word. Isn't it wonderful how a market economy can even rearrange your keyboard? The second Amen/+1 goes to Wordstar keybindings. Somebody put a whole lot of thought into them and made them the most intuitive of any editor of that time and since. You could easily learn how to move around all around in a file you were editing in under an hour and then remember all of the keybindings the next day. Most all the Wordstar keybindings for navigation were also language-independent; that is, you didn't have to know English for them to make sense and so be easily memorable. If I was just starting out in computing and wasn't already so accustomed to emacs keybindings, I'd definitely go to something like joe\jstar for an editor.