From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexandre Garreau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: no to war in Ukraine Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:39:49 +0100 Message-ID: <5084430.J0GBE4kE0S@galex-713.eu> References: <87ee3p4xn4.fsf@zoho.eu> <44446637.PyEFFFD7HL@galex-713.eu> <2f3aadc4-4b1e-431e-bdd5-6b6406eb5419@rixotstudio.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40194"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Richard Stallman , Jean Louis To: Jacob Hrbek Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 28 16:40:57 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nOi8v-000AJY-A1 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:40:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39926 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOi8s-0007ys-P3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:40:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39330) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOi7z-0007yj-Kj for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:39:59 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:5884:8305::1] (port=41926 helo=galex-713.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOi7w-0003D2-B5; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:39:59 -0500 Original-Received: from gal by galex-713.eu with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOi7q-00DtFG-4q; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 16:39:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: <2f3aadc4-4b1e-431e-bdd5-6b6406eb5419@rixotstudio.cz> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:5884:8305::1 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:5884:8305::1; envelope-from=galex-713@galex-713.eu; helo=galex-713.eu X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:136292 Archived-At: Le lundo, 28-a de februaro 2022, 16-a horo kaj 10:57 CET Jacob Hrbek a =C3= =A9crit : > > It can, and it would, but nobody have shown any example of this=20 >=20 > happening (like a specific example of a software used by putin=E2=80=99s = army). > -- Garreau >=20 > Putin literally has linux on his PC and russia _runs_ on linux That=E2=80=99s unspecific. If it wasn=E2=80=99t Linux it could be kOpenBSD= , kFreeBSD, kNetBSD, Mach,=20 whole XNU, NT or Flushia. It doesn=E2=80=99t change a shit. And Linux is = well known to most often=20 be proprietary and for its developer to care little about copyleft and free= dom, only about=20 efficient development methods. Now it looks like you are suggesting every software developer, says Linux= =E2=80=99s ones,=20 implement a surveillance system that asks to each user to identify themselv= es (for=20 instance on the basis of citizenship) in order to use the software. Some s= ort of DRM. And=20 you somewhat hope naively it won=E2=80=99t be then used back to do the same= kind of oppression=20 Putin is doing on Ukraine (if that surveillance system is controlled by US,= it would have=20 been Iraq, if China, Taiwan, if France, Niger, if Russia, Finland (hell, Li= nus=E2=80=99 originating=20 country), etc. etc.). Are you really naive enough to think any kind of oppression, control, power= is incorruptible? If it was Czechia, do you think it would be safe against putin=E2=80=99s ar= my materially breakin=E2=80=99 in=20 there, cracking it, and using it in their own favor? Then the US would want to avoid that, and would invade Czechia (at least di= gitally), just as=20 they recently convinced Slovakia to give up on their sovereignty in front o= f Russia=E2=80=99s threat,=20 or like they have shown to illegally store nuclear weapons on antinuclear g= ermany, hidding=20 that from its citizens. Don=E2=80=99t ceade to emotion and fear as you=E2=80=99ll end up more fragi= le for defending freedom( > > I am really, really, deeply sorry, we are in the same shit rn. I try > >=20 >=20 > to keep calm by thinking of it like an abscess we have to burn out at=20 > some point. Putin always have been a threat anyway. Some solution have >=20 to be found. >=20 >=20 > > Unfortunately, nobody in this list has a solution. Even your=20 >=20 > propositions are dummy, inefficient, and misdirected (you were=20 > suggesting to remove freedoms of the people oppressed by the same=20 > oppressor, and among the most numerous one to protest against him). --=20 > Garreau >=20 > I proposed asking yourself an ethical question whether releasing your=20 > work could be used as a major enabler in russian military, Yes it could. And if I make food, and sell it, it could be reselled to rus= sians. That=E2=80=99s no=20 reason to, say, engineer a selective bacteria that would pretendously only = target russian=20 DNA, put it in food, and write on it =C2=ABnot for russians!!!=C2=BB. That= would be very stupid and=20 would do more harms to humans in general and russian resistance against put= in that to the=20 russian military (that has access to all the other food anyway). The only narrative I can see to support that is both the one that ignores t= hat DRM is both=20 ineffective and elitistly ends up always turning back against the general p= ublic (but some=20 crackers), and the narrative that if something just is needed, the whole wo= rld will gather=20 together in favor of it (no, you cannot trust the whole world to act in a s= ingle direction=20 coordinately, it never happens that way but in US movies). > if yes then=20 > take appropriate steps to either de-weaponize it Do you write weapons? because your stance and speaking point really puzzles= me, why=20 worrying about that? what are your works that could be used against ukraini= ans? Also it looks like DRM. > or impose appropriate > restrictions to make the software not accessible to them You mean censorship. Ok that=E2=80=99s slightly less uneffective, but stil= l is. Russians already are=20 used to avoid their own govt=E2=80=99s censorship, they=E2=80=99d avoid mos= t easily yours. How would you=20 do that?? > or not as > harmful and i proposed integrating a VPN for FSF associate members for > FSF to moderate and move our sensitive projects on it. Why? > Note that those are projected to be a _TEMPORARY_ measures so i would=20 > even go as far to implement malware that triggers when RU IP is assigned > to the system. In the end you would harm more antiputin ppl than proputin one, so by defen= ding=20 oppression (in general, for the sake of liberation), and attacking freedom,= you would in the=20 end=E2=80=A6 defend oppression (russian=E2=80=99s one) and attacking freedo= m (including of ukrainians). You seem to be under the effect of so strong emotion that the subliminal na= rrative of=20 oppression grows in your mind so much that it can bypass reason and turns b= ack against=20 yourself. Please hold a minute and reflect a bit about actual consequences. That=E2=80=99s sad but sometimes we are helpless. It happens. Even dosome= thingite and running=20 in the wrong direction won=E2=80=99t help.