From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "gebser@mousecar.com" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: FOSS replacement for PDF [Re: editing a PDF] Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 04:26:08 -0400 Message-ID: <5064494c-5c24-ed45-a316-ea90d711ce94@mousecar.com> References: <877cvhqo9p.fsf@web.de> <4a7a0baf-677b-118c-fa6c-e50d054800e7@posteo.de> <87o7osp4ck.fsf@web.de> <704a63ef-c56d-f892-1e3f-9ee0f884b038@mousecar.com> <87y1nsmgwz.fsf@web.de> <0e6c9b8a-b70f-d244-c031-68c0c58dca86@mousecar.com> <77a3b68b-a9f1-f8e7-176c-d929c85eb472@uni-koeln.de> <31dffcc9-bda2-b340-a09c-fe3d3a1b3a40@mousecar.com> <57456f0e-5e5e-42d3-6e33-2cdd10d974c5@uni-koeln.de> Reply-To: gebser@mousecar.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33910"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 22 09:27:10 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1petoL-0008bQ-S6 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2023 09:27:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1petnd-0001Tm-NJ; Wed, 22 Mar 2023 04:26:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1petnS-0001TL-9A for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2023 04:26:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1petnP-0002uC-8m for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2023 04:26:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.124.9] ([76.73.230.143]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MBEUl-1pp2fM0o5d-00AG3C for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2023 09:26:09 +0100 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <57456f0e-5e5e-42d3-6e33-2cdd10d974c5@uni-koeln.de> X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:asdHVa22ha4NLiw8hXeKMMmgqjW4NeVeOI719/eXUBJUa9HU7AR JFnZLT4yYNZTbo4gOUPc4vLzBNz4rGjOQtSX4BJENeNy74pdDqyqLkCi6y66G8er+lfpuQ6 RIe3Qr1kGMWZ1GTkg/BNaWF8NNH4qOq0AdGTfOLctgWwpp6Gw0aeYOD9KpqBp7RgyUrCGSB 5ndZeC1HcOTmBWPdkPxCA== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:lmRO8XAMOyY=;edl/vpa4AxD4rdaVk+hSmVWMSB8 vBhB8QfgF3M1mgZi128TeygcgHLFM06cxFZEeB4kkUT1+PielnZxrwhgrUZ7/aTwIPnQI3i1w HHyzhkCRwOpD5saTg9tQBD5DE61XsnlJw+SGQ9oHF2Q4KQ7L0vLTbCzJYykoYorvdofYZpod1 TBLbGzPOSvvpqyUUyiICOtnwseTRd1ooBEqf0ZD+x8UKO2A1T8AV567weAow8eN0jg6O6L/MP 7OAKJ+N9Dt/3fTEUE3VPjiaYr/h1itpfK4PjFr7Z3IxWLJklwXXmOUOmvWGUjTt6JVCgq7EZe rN3KDAZGTE9aZEO7oUFjcQWDWw+j8RXCZqsgNg6VOJHg5CEB7JQTBzMzLjee1Pl1f24GDTWYz M36HTEniT0wWFGs1CvdviblEJEcBIkYAN6afUhzxo7RWL7pTaA1//r42vV0YHJmKxwo0lNZ1d Z2Svx3dID/eJFjCXn5+hxEMFGPWubYAgl/o/M1vZu82cGHUaS1KcKgw/YQxujrINR7gkWwTE9 BqixcnZjAOzKwWGrnaopXwfkFBmaLu+SgBA9FQCCZgsIzA6euWqOvL+XIIGjOD9jE/tF/Y1LM PkrKi3bfJfU0R5HYxgYYfEd7wOemszVTnd5fkfqJ54XA6UIYjKiYstlFl5+/rzTiCSKjKGd/k vRL4298AgMPzCZBHMot4CK3WNi1u4fK9uzUUm27FNk6gP7ZKYGfGr81SsH7C0ko= Received-SPF: none client-ip=74.208.4.194; envelope-from=gebser@mousecar.com; helo=mout.perfora.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:143081 Archived-At: On 3/21/23 6:55 PM, Ulrich Deiters wrote: > Am 21.03.23 um 22:57 schrieb gebser@mousecar.com: >> Better than that, what FOSS app(s) would be happy replacement for the >> Acrobat-Industrial Complex? > > This depends on what you want. Printing a document takes > (at least) three stages: > > (1) One composes the text using a language that contains formatting > commands. The best open-source choice is LaTeX. LaTeX code is human- > readable and can be edited with emacs; in fact, emacs has a LaTeX > mode. There are also free programs that assist writing LaTeX code, > or which let one compose XML code, which is then translated into LaTeX. > > (2) One processes the LaTeX code; the results are DVI, PostScript, > or PDF files. Such files basically consist of instructions of the > type "choose font F, go to location (X, Y), and print character C". > Therefore these files are long and, if converted to a human-readable > format, very boring. You do not want to edit these. > > (3) The intermediate code is processed to produce a bitmap, which is > then transferred to the paper. > > So you see, the stage at which editing makes sense is Stage (1). > > Exceptions are graphics designers and artists, who work with PostScript > or similar languages directly in order to achieve special effects. > > Thanks for the very thorough reply. This question really wasn't for me, but rather for people I know and meet who write pdf docs, who take pdf as a "standard". I'm afraid that latex would be far too technological for them... and for most people. Even something like Libreoffice's Write would have a more familiar UI-- for that reason alone they'd be more like likely to try it.