From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: MBR Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: "like other editors" [was: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete] Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:26:33 -0400 Message-ID: <4E8C9349.7040000@arlsoft.com> References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20111003093334.0bf5d988@kuru.homelinux.net> <4E89B613.9060305@mousecar.com> <1317749236.13827.YahooMailNeo@web161614.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040002030403070703040401" X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317835613 25645 80.91.229.12 (5 Oct 2011 17:26:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 17:26:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" , "emacs-delete-poll@gnu.org" , "rms@gnu.org" To: S Boucher Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 05 19:26:48 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVF0-0005JR-S1 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 19:26:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46230 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVF0-0005M8-4G for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:26:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:40360) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVEv-0005Lr-Hp for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:26:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVEu-0000CG-9E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:26:41 -0400 Original-Received: from cario.hostforweb.net ([66.225.230.82]:56595) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVEu-0000C2-3j; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 13:26:40 -0400 Original-Received: from c-24-61-86-182.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([24.61.86.182]:1410 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by cario.hostforweb.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RBVEr-00045g-6U; Wed, 05 Oct 2011 12:26:37 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.20) Gecko/20110804 Thunderbird/3.1.12 In-Reply-To: <1317749236.13827.YahooMailNeo@web161614.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cario.hostforweb.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - arlsoft.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-Received-From: 66.225.230.82 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82483 Archived-At: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040002030403070703040401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Superficially, it sounds like he's just lazy. But I often find myself in situations where I'm debugging a problem for a client and I'm on someone else's machine. I can't take the time to edit in all my customizations into the client's account, and even if I could, he might not want me to. So I have no choice but to just live with the default emacs configuration. If the issue is whether or not menus are enabled, I can live with or without them. But if the keystroke assignments have changed, my fingers are constantly tripping over each other, which is distracting enough that it makes it hard to concentrate on debugging the problem I'm there to fix in the first place. So maybe the objection isn't quite as stupid as you're implying. Mark Rosenthal mbr@arlsoft.com On 10/4/2011 1:27 PM, S Boucher wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> This is an invalid argument, --snip-- > This reminds me of the time rms asked whether menus should be enabled by default. > > One objection from a hacker - I won't say who he is - complained that it would require him to change his .emacs to disable the menubar. Understanding the stupidy of this argument is left as an exercise. > > Thankfully, rms did the right thing and the menus are on by defaults... and I disable them in my .emacs :-) > > > > --------------040002030403070703040401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Superficially, it sounds like he's just lazy.  But I often find myself in situations where I'm debugging a problem for a client and I'm on someone else's machine.  I can't take the time to edit in all my customizations into the client's account, and even if I could, he might not want me to.  So I have no choice but to just live with the default emacs configuration.  If the issue is whether or not menus are enabled, I can live with or without them.  But if the keystroke assignments have changed, my fingers are constantly tripping over each other, which is distracting enough that it makes it hard to concentrate on debugging the problem I'm there to fix in the first place.  So maybe the objection isn't quite as stupid as you're implying.
Mark Rosenthal
mbr@arlsoft.com
On 10/4/2011 1:27 PM, S Boucher wrote: 

----- Original Message -----


This is an invalid argument, --snip--

This reminds me of the time rms asked whether menus should be enabled by default.

One objection from a hacker - I won't say who he is - complained that it would require him to change his .emacs to disable the menubar.  Understanding the stupidy of this argument is left as an exercise.

Thankfully, rms did the right thing and the menus are on by defaults... and I disable them in my .emacs :-)
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