From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ken Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: "like other editors" [was: Re: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete] Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:18:11 -0400 Message-ID: <4E89B613.9060305@mousecar.com> References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20111003093334.0bf5d988@kuru.homelinux.net> Reply-To: gebser@mousecar.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317647916 29070 80.91.229.12 (3 Oct 2011 13:18:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 13:18:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-delete-poll@gnu.org To: Suvayu Ali Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 03 15:18:31 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RAiPd-0007Ix-Bn for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 15:18:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57527 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAiPc-0004v4-Sk for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:18:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:38886) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAiPX-0004uD-T9 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:18:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAiPT-0006t4-Jo for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:18:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195]:50561) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RAiPT-0006su-EQ; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:18:19 -0400 Original-Received: from dellap.mousecar.net (dsl093-011-016.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.11.16]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MWCcT-1Rd48K0tEv-00XGoQ; Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:18:17 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20110928) In-Reply-To: <20111003093334.0bf5d988@kuru.homelinux.net> X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:LIz7eod+Lh+HbSWuCWso3mQH1aCdhx4qcUO4q7TUOmR qUd2fRp9l7jrLMpRw7IolfTweB/zPpygr9nxWOnHDi0SzRhwpd Dt2wPFYsVUcjn4LwwQUM8Hn4PYn9pfgRnKFVkfLckL/u8AEeWl fohlh76dl7HGhMd+mCcU47qTryRTbjhk33SQatriH++iLe0c+h HWevGtOLIASdifT86wAk3E5Sc+loSQ4DNqNW10f3HHrjMPRj4x oCK2u5qB3d/wak/llqp0dHKEs2Ychu6RakVUKypKse+HE5gZwo DhC8hxhtDDO27q/+uf6pfCcxURWCDneR0S1QzNpy0Iv3EkhGPP Wi2t8fRslt9bJCcdclQnh0UemHHAS6cIfq/EBlxFw X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.208.4.195 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82409 Archived-At: > [Making this change] brings default Emacs behaviour close > to other modern text editors. .... This is an invalid argument, more an appeal to fashion than an appeal to reason. When switching from one application to another, we shouldn't expect the new one to behave just like the former one. They are different pieces of software, after all. When you start using different software, you should expect that it will operate differently. You should expect that you'll have to learn new things. Secondly, there are places in the world where people haven't ever used Windows; instead, their first and only experience with computers is with Linux. What sense can it make to them that emacs' behavior is changed simply to mimic some other editor they've never seen or used? I think that over the long term it will trend upwards that more people's first and only computer experience will be with FOSS. So thinking ahead to those times, why should we alter the default behavior of Emacs to conform to a legacy editor? Fourth, if we apply your argument to every difference between Emacs and (e.g.) Word, then we end up with Emacs behaving just like Word, and there being no difference between Emacs and Word. Then we might as well just use Word. :/ Fifth, if we change emacs to comport with Word, and if in future Word changes the way it handles highlighted text to way emacs does now, should emacs then change back again, just to (again) follow the way Word works? Finally, as said at the top, the argument to follow "other modern editors" is nothing more than an appeal to fashion. And fashion is very subjective and capricious. We should no more change emacs simply to comport with some other, even (currently) more popular software than you and I and all the other guys on this list should start dressing ourselves like the cool dudes on whatever soap opera is the most popular these days. Let's just talk about what makes sense.