dired without -l, wdired fails

dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Roehler]

Hi,

if `dired' is called without the `-l' switch,
wdired... no longer works, buffer isn't editable.

Think should file a bug-report. Just asking here first, maybe
I miss something.

Thanks

Andreas

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Tassilo Horn]

Andreas Roehler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:

Hi Andreas,

> if `dired' is called without the `-l' switch,
> wdired... no longer works, buffer isn't editable.

Does dired work without -l?  At least the docs say it MUST contain -l.

,----[ C-h v dired-listing-switches RET ]
| dired-listing-switches is a variable defined in `dired.el'.
| Its value is "-aDlh"
| 
| Documentation:
| Switches passed to `ls' for Dired.  MUST contain the `l' option.
| May contain all other options that don't contradict `-l';
| may contain even `F', `b', `i' and `s'.  See also the variable
| `dired-ls-F-marks-symlinks' concerning the `F' switch.
| On systems such as MS-DOS and MS-Windows, which use `ls' emulation in Lisp,
| some of the `ls' switches are not supported; see the doc string of
| `insert-directory' in `ls-lisp.el' for more details.
`----

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Roehler]

Tassilo Horn wrote:
> Andreas Roehler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:
> 
> Hi Andreas,
> 
>> if `dired' is called without the `-l' switch,
>> wdired... no longer works, buffer isn't editable.
> 
> Does dired work without -l?  At least the docs say it MUST contain -l.
> 
> ,----[ C-h v dired-listing-switches RET ]
> | dired-listing-switches is a variable defined in `dired.el'.
> | Its value is "-aDlh"
> | 
> | Documentation:
> | Switches passed to `ls' for Dired.  MUST contain the `l' option.
> | May contain all other options that don't contradict `-l';
> | may contain even `F', `b', `i' and `s'.  See also the variable
> | `dired-ls-F-marks-symlinks' concerning the `F' switch.
> | On systems such as MS-DOS and MS-Windows, which use `ls' emulation in Lisp,
> | some of the `ls' switches are not supported; see the doc string of
> | `insert-directory' in `ls-lisp.el' for more details.
> `----
> 
> Bye,
> Tassilo
> 


Hi Tassilo,

you are right. It's a convenience-bug anyway IMO.

IIRC `dired' basically displays the output of
shell-command `ls [options]' in a buffer, afterwards working
with, send it back to the shell.

From this I never understood this limitation, which looks
inconvenient in many respects.

Thanks

Andreas

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Tassilo Horn]

Andreas Roehler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:

Hi Andreas,

>>> if `dired' is called without the `-l' switch, wdired... no longer
>>> works, buffer isn't editable.
>> 
>> Does dired work without -l?  At least the docs say it MUST contain
>> -l.
>> 
>> ,----[ C-h v dired-listing-switches RET ]
>> | dired-listing-switches is a variable defined in `dired.el'.
>> | Its value is "-aDlh"
>> | 
>> | Documentation:
>> | Switches passed to `ls' for Dired.  MUST contain the `l' option.
>> | May contain all other options that don't contradict `-l';
>> | may contain even `F', `b', `i' and `s'.  See also the variable
>> | `dired-ls-F-marks-symlinks' concerning the `F' switch.
>> | On systems such as MS-DOS and MS-Windows, which use `ls' emulation in Lisp,
>> | some of the `ls' switches are not supported; see the doc string of
>> | `insert-directory' in `ls-lisp.el' for more details.
>> `----
>
> you are right. It's a convenience-bug anyway IMO.
>
> IIRC `dired' basically displays the output of shell-command `ls
> [options]' in a buffer, afterwards working with, send it back to the
> shell.
>
> From this I never understood this limitation, which looks inconvenient
> in many respects.

By default the switches also contain the -D option, which are described
as follows:

,----[ (info "(coreutils)What information is listed") ]
| `-D'
| `--dired'
|      With the long listing (`-l') format, print an additional line after
|      the main output:
| 
|           //DIRED// BEG1 END1 BEG2 END2 ...
| 
|      The BEGN and ENDN are unsigned integers that record the byte
|      position of the beginning and end of each file name in the output.
|      This makes it easy for Emacs to find the names, even when they
|      contain unusual characters such as space or newline, without fancy
|      searching.
`----

That option requires -l, although I don't see why.  But that may be the
cause.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Tim X]

Andreas Roehler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:

> Hi,
>
> if `dired' is called without the `-l' switch,
> wdired... no longer works, buffer isn't editable.
>
> Think should file a bug-report. Just asking here first, maybe
> I miss something.
>
> Thanks
>

Not a bug - from the docs 

,----[ C-h v dired-listing-switches RET ]
| dired-listing-switches is a variable defined in `dired.el'.
| Its value is "-l"
| 
| Documentation:
| Switches passed to `ls' for Dired.  MUST contain the `l' option.
| May contain all other options that don't contradict `-l';
| may contain even `F', `b', `i' and `s'.  See also the variable
| `dired-ls-F-marks-symlinks' concerning the `F' switch.
| On systems such as MS-DOS and MS-Windows, which use `ls' emulation in Lisp,
| some of the `ls' switches are not supported; see the doc string of
| `insert-directory' in `ls-lisp.el' for more details.
| 
| You can customize this variable.
| 
| [back]
`----

HTH 

Tim
>
>

-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Tim X]

Andreas Roehler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:

> Tassilo Horn wrote:
>> Andreas Roehler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:
>> 
>
> IIRC `dired' basically displays the output of
> shell-command `ls [options]' in a buffer, afterwards working
> with, send it back to the shell.
>
> From this I never understood this limitation, which looks
> inconvenient in many respects.
>
Noting of course taht there is also a lisp version of 'ls', which
provides this functionality on non-unix like platforms and provides some
additional functionality on platforms that do have a shell based 'ls'. 

My guess is that by forcing the -l switch, you get a fairly standard and
easy to parse output, making the code easier to maintain. Without -l,
you have to have more code to handle the parsing of the output and
possibly even more problematic, more code to handle the display and
movement within that display etc. 

Tim



-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Tim X wrote:
> Andreas Roehler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:
> 
>> Tassilo Horn wrote:
>>> Andreas Roehler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:
>>>
>> IIRC `dired' basically displays the output of
>> shell-command `ls [options]' in a buffer, afterwards working
>> with, send it back to the shell.
>>
>> From this I never understood this limitation, which looks
>> inconvenient in many respects.
>>
> Noting of course taht there is also a lisp version of 'ls', which
> provides this functionality on non-unix like platforms and provides some
> additional functionality on platforms that do have a shell based 'ls'. 

Ah, thanks, remember faintly now... :-)


> 
> My guess is that by forcing the -l switch, you get a fairly standard and
> easy to parse output, making the code easier to maintain. Without -l,
> you have to have more code to handle the parsing of the output and
> possibly even more problematic, more code to handle the display and
> movement within that display etc. 

Sometimes I like to see just `ls'-output. Would be great if other dired-functions work than too.

Andreas

> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Stefan Monnier]

> Sometimes I like to see just `ls'-output. Would be great if other
> dired-functions work than too.

Plain "ls" output is difficult to parse reliably (though an appropriate
"ls --dired" would be fine, of course, and a Lisp implementation would
work as well).  OTOH "ls -1" is OK and should to work just fine with
`dired-virtual'.


        Stefan

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Sometimes I like to see just `ls'-output. Would be great if other
>> dired-functions work than too.
> 
> Plain "ls" output is difficult to parse reliably (though an appropriate
> "ls --dired" would be fine, of course, and a Lisp implementation would
> work as well).  OTOH "ls -1" is OK and should to work just fine with
> `dired-virtual'.
> 
> 
>         Stefan
> 

Hi Stefan, thanks,

should I make a bug report for the issue?

Andreas

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> Sometimes I like to see just `ls'-output. Would be great if other
>>> dired-functions work than too.
>> Plain "ls" output is difficult to parse reliably (though an appropriate
>> "ls --dired" would be fine, of course, and a Lisp implementation would
>> work as well).  OTOH "ls -1" is OK and should to work just fine with
>> `dired-virtual'.
> should I make a bug report for the issue?

I don't see a bug in this thread, but maybe it's because I haven't paid
enough attention.


        Stefan

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Tim X]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

>>>> Sometimes I like to see just `ls'-output. Would be great if other
>>>> dired-functions work than too.
>>> Plain "ls" output is difficult to parse reliably (though an appropriate
>>> "ls --dired" would be fine, of course, and a Lisp implementation would
>>> work as well).  OTOH "ls -1" is OK and should to work just fine with
>>> `dired-virtual'.
>> should I make a bug report for the issue?
>
> I don't see a bug in this thread, but maybe it's because I haven't paid
> enough attention.
>
>
>         Stefan
>

I don't believe there is any bug. Possibly a feature request, but no
bug.

Tim
>

-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>> Sometimes I like to see just `ls'-output. Would be great if other
>>>> dired-functions work than too.
>>> Plain "ls" output is difficult to parse reliably (though an appropriate
>>> "ls --dired" would be fine, of course, and a Lisp implementation would
>>> work as well).  OTOH "ls -1" is OK and should to work just fine with
>>> `dired-virtual'.
>> should I make a bug report for the issue?
> 
> I don't see a bug in this thread, but maybe it's because I haven't paid
> enough attention.
> 
> 
>         Stefan
> 


When trying edits in wdired-mode, get an error "Text is read-only" in all cases mentioned above,
while mode-line displays "(Editable Dired...)"

Andreas

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Bernardo]

> 
> Sometimes I like to see just `ls'-output. 

M-x list-directory or M-x ffap-list-directory (C-x C-d) may be of 
interest in this case

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Bernardo wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes I like to see just `ls'-output. 
> 
> M-x list-directory or M-x ffap-list-directory (C-x C-d) may be of
> interest in this case
> 
> 
> 

Hhm, thanks reminding me at that.
However, find dired more convenient, as it permits the change of dired-listing-switches with C-u
on the fly.

Setting it to pure `ls' or `ls -1' as Stefan suggested, works fine so far.
It's just, wdired doesn't work then any more.

Andreas

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Stefan Monnier]

> Setting it to pure `ls' or `ls -1' as Stefan suggested, works fine so far.
> It's just, wdired doesn't work then any more.

If dired indeed works and wdired doesn't, then we indeed have a bug.


        Stefan

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Setting it to pure `ls' or `ls -1' as Stefan suggested, works fine so far.
>> It's just, wdired doesn't work then any more.
> 
> If dired indeed works and wdired doesn't, then we indeed have a bug.
> 
> 
>         Stefan
> 
> 

OK, filed as M-x report-emacs-bug suggested:

To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org

Subject: 23.1.90; wdired fails with dired ls -1

emacs -q

dired with option `ls -1'
wdired-change-to-wdired-mode

reports error:

wdired-preprocess-symlinks: Search failed: " -> \\(.*\\)$"

Mode-line displays "(Editable Dired...)"
but when I start editing, it's refused saying:

call-interactively: Text is read-only
...
;;;;;;;;;;

Andreas

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Stefan Monnier]

>> If dired indeed works and wdired doesn't, then we indeed have a bug.
> OK, filed as M-x report-emacs-bug suggested:

AFAIK, dired does not work in your context, so that wouldn't be a bug.


        Stefan

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> If dired indeed works and wdired doesn't, then we indeed have a bug.
>> OK, filed as M-x report-emacs-bug suggested:
> 
> AFAIK, dired does not work in your context, so that wouldn't be a bug.
> 
> 
>         Stefan
> 

Output of dired with dired-listing-switch `1' as you suggested was fine. Just the docu contradicts,
requiring the `-l' switch. Only wdired- failed. Think it's extentable at this point.

Andreas

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Tim X]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Setting it to pure `ls' or `ls -1' as Stefan suggested, works fine so far.
>> It's just, wdired doesn't work then any more.
>
> If dired indeed works and wdired doesn't, then we indeed have a bug.
>
>
>         Stefan
>

Unless I misunderstand, dired and wdired work fine provided you include
the -l switch. Without the -l switch, wdired no longer works. 

As the -l switch is a documented requirement, I don't believe this
constitutes a bug. 

However, Andreas would like to be able to use dired/wdired without the
-l i.e. on a brief and I assume more compact dired/wdired display. Iff
this is the case, I'd argue its a feature request and not a bug report. 

Tim

-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Tassilo Horn]

Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> writes:

> Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>> If dired indeed works and wdired doesn't, then we indeed have a bug.
>>> OK, filed as M-x report-emacs-bug suggested:
>> 
>> AFAIK, dired does not work in your context, so that wouldn't be a bug.
>
> Output of dired with dired-listing-switch `1' as you suggested was
> fine.

I tried to reproduce that here (with emacs -Q), but if I remove the -l
and use nothing or plain -1, then the dired output is *not* ok (all
files except the last are indented a bit, and the last's first char has
`dired-mark' face), and no dired commands work anymore.  I cannot
operate on any file, I always get

  dired-get-file-for-visit: No file on this line

> Just the docu contradicts, requiring the `-l' switch. Only wdired-
> failed. Think it's extentable at this point.

Are you really sure that all or at least most dired commands work
without -l?

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Tim X wrote:
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
> 
>>> Setting it to pure `ls' or `ls -1' as Stefan suggested, works fine so far.
>>> It's just, wdired doesn't work then any more.
>> If dired indeed works and wdired doesn't, then we indeed have a bug.
>>
>>
>>         Stefan
>>
> 
> Unless I misunderstand, dired and wdired work fine provided you include
> the -l switch. Without the -l switch, wdired no longer works. 
> 
> As the -l switch is a documented requirement, I don't believe this
> constitutes a bug. 
> 
> However, Andreas would like to be able to use dired/wdired without the
> -l i.e. on a brief and I assume more compact dired/wdired display. Iff
> this is the case, I'd argue its a feature request and not a bug report. 
> 
> Tim
> 

Basically agreed, thanks Tim.

BTW where to direct are feature request to?

Andreas

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Tassilo Horn wrote:
> Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> writes:
> 
>> Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>>> If dired indeed works and wdired doesn't, then we indeed have a bug.
>>>> OK, filed as M-x report-emacs-bug suggested:
>>> AFAIK, dired does not work in your context, so that wouldn't be a bug.
>> Output of dired with dired-listing-switch `1' as you suggested was
>> fine.
> 
> I tried to reproduce that here (with emacs -Q), but if I remove the -l
> and use nothing or plain -1, then the dired output is *not* ok (all
> files except the last are indented a bit, and the last's first char has
> `dired-mark' face),

Well, was happy with that so far already. With long filenames, the output from `-l'
switch is hardly readable sometimes.

Seems you are perfectly right.

 and no dired commands work anymore.

Didn't check that, stopped at the wdired-issue.


I cannot
> operate on any file, I always get
> 
>   dired-get-file-for-visit: No file on this line
> 
>> Just the docu contradicts, requiring the `-l' switch. Only wdired-
>> failed. Think it's extentable at this point.
> 
> Are you really sure that all or at least most dired commands work
> without -l?

Not at all.

Thanks for you attention.

Andreas
> 
> Bye,
> Tassilo
> 

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 18.02.2010 um 08:57 schrieb Andreas Röhler:

> BTW where to direct are feature request to?

Either emacs-devel (at gnu dot org) or the usual list to which you  
send bug reports, this time with a subject beginning with request for  
enhancement or such.

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities  
in our air and water that are doing it.

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Stefan Monnier]

>> However, Andreas would like to be able to use dired/wdired without the
>> -l i.e. on a brief and I assume more compact dired/wdired display. Iff
>> this is the case, I'd argue its a feature request and not a bug report. 

As mentioned in an earlier message, dired-virtual should work for
"ls -1".


        Stefan

Re: dired without -l, wdired fails

[Andreas Röhler]

Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> However, Andreas would like to be able to use dired/wdired without the
>>> -l i.e. on a brief and I assume more compact dired/wdired display. Iff
>>> this is the case, I'd argue its a feature request and not a bug report. 
> 
> As mentioned in an earlier message, dired-virtual should work for
> "ls -1".
> 
> 
>         Stefan
> 

Hi Stefan,

can't see how to load this option within the rules given.
dired itself requires the `-l'

extension dired-virtual --a great feature BTW-- depends on dired-rules for me.

How to load the directory in without the mandatory `-l'?

Afterwards I may produce the result of "ls -1" setting the regexp accordingly with dired-virtual.
But that's much more complicated than specifying the switch via C-u M-x dired

Andreas

PS: suggest to leave the bug-thread for the moment, coming back with the result.