* Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? [not found] <mailman.17236.1219325516.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2008-08-21 14:14 ` Michael Ekstrand [not found] ` <mailman.17242.1219328080.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Michael Ekstrand @ 2008-08-21 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: xiaopeng hu; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 780 bytes --] First, please put your question in the body of the message. It makes reading and replying easier. Now, to attempt to answer your question: everything. Emacs Lisp is used for extending, customizing, and implementing Emacs. Most of Emacs itself is written in Emacs Lisp. Emacs users use Emacs Lisp to customize their Emacs (setting variables and writing functions in their .emacs file, typically) and add new features to it. Software developers use Emacs Lisp to write new packages adding additional features and capabilities to Emacs. - Michael -- mouse, n: A device for pointing at the xterm in which you want to type. Confused by the strange files? I cryptographically sign my messages. For more information see <http://www.elehack.net/resources/gpg>. [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 196 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
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* Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? [not found] ` <mailman.17242.1219328080.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2008-08-21 23:01 ` Evans Winner 2008-08-22 1:23 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon 2008-09-11 17:53 ` Oleksandr Gavenko 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Evans Winner @ 2008-08-21 23:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Michael Ekstrand <michael@elehack.net> writes: Now, to attempt to answer your question: everything. Emacs Lisp is used for extending, customizing, and implementing Emacs. Most of Emacs itself is written in Emacs Lisp. Emacs users use Emacs Lisp to customize their Emacs (setting variables and writing functions in their .emacs file, typically) and add new features to it. Software developers use Emacs Lisp to write new packages adding additional features and capabilities to Emacs. But seriously folks, why, why, oh why is Emacs so rare in this regard? I mean, maybe I'm just another Emacs religious nut, but I just can't fathom why anyone wants their software to be exclusively mouse-driven, rigid, inflexible, un-extensible, un-customizable, un-self-documenting, non language-based, etc. I really am surprised sometimes that the whole lisp machine concept never took off. I mean, I'm not really surprised -- after all, originally most people who could benefit from PCs knew nothing about them and were understandably intimidated and so they welcomed the whole point-and-grunt model of machine-human interaction. But now? Sheesh. Isn't it time for people to start using computers like intelligent civilized humans? And just when I thought it couldn't get any worse than the old Macintosh model of if-it-ain't-got-a-button- it-ain't-gonna-happen user interface, now everybody wants to write their user interface in some kind of Frankenstein's monster of web browser typesetting widgets and ad-hoc scripting languages and the result is that while at least the data entry people could really get good with keyboarding around the green screen crud screens once upon a time, now even the best of them is reduced to the data throughput level of a three year old[1]. At least that's how it seems to me. I'm on a bit of a rampage of late because I just took a new sysadmin job and found that the IT department policies are so absurdly strict that I can't even install my choice of text editors on the PC there. There is a short (very short) list of allowed software (almost all of it proprietary, of course) and I'm just stuck with it. There I am running a million-dollar system running (nee) OS/400 and on the front end I'm stuck with Windows and notepad.exe. Point... grunt... point... grunt. I'm so extremely sorry to have wasted everyone's time with all this ranting... though evidently not sorry enough to rethink sending it. Anyway, long live Emacs lisp. Footnotes: [1] Not that I have anything against the mouse or GUIs; on the contrary I think they can be very useful. I just don't think they are a good substitute for those things... for which they are not a good substitute... like, er, most user input, for instance. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? 2008-08-21 23:01 ` Evans Winner @ 2008-08-22 1:23 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon 2008-08-22 3:15 ` stan 2008-09-11 17:53 ` Oleksandr Gavenko 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Pascal J. Bourguignon @ 2008-08-22 1:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Evans Winner <thorne@timbral.net> writes: > Michael Ekstrand <michael@elehack.net> writes: > > Now, to attempt to answer your question: everything. > Emacs Lisp is used for extending, customizing, and > implementing Emacs. Most of Emacs itself is written in > Emacs Lisp. Emacs users use Emacs Lisp to customize > their Emacs (setting variables and writing functions in > their .emacs file, typically) and add new features to > it. Software developers use Emacs Lisp to write new > packages adding additional features and capabilities to > Emacs. > > But seriously folks, why, why, oh why is Emacs so rare in > this regard? I mean, maybe I'm just another Emacs religious > nut, but I just can't fathom why anyone wants their software > to be exclusively mouse-driven, rigid, inflexible, > un-extensible, un-customizable, un-self-documenting, non > language-based, etc. I really am surprised sometimes that > the whole lisp machine concept never took off. I mean, I'm > not really surprised -- after all, originally most people > who could benefit from PCs knew nothing about them and were > understandably intimidated and so they welcomed the whole > point-and-grunt model of machine-human interaction. But > now? Sheesh. Isn't it time for people to start using > computers like intelligent civilized humans? > > And just when I thought it couldn't get any worse than the > old Macintosh model of if-it-ain't-got-a-button- > it-ain't-gonna-happen user interface, now everybody wants to > write their user interface in some kind of Frankenstein's > monster of web browser typesetting widgets and ad-hoc > scripting languages and the result is that while at least > the data entry people could really get good with keyboarding > around the green screen crud screens once upon a time, now > even the best of them is reduced to the data throughput > level of a three year old[1]. > > At least that's how it seems to me. > > I'm on a bit of a rampage of late because I just took a new > sysadmin job and found that the IT department policies are > so absurdly strict that I can't even install my choice of > text editors on the PC there. There is a short (very short) > list of allowed software (almost all of it proprietary, of > course) and I'm just stuck with it. There I am running a > million-dollar system running (nee) OS/400 and on the front > end I'm stuck with Windows and notepad.exe. Point... > grunt... point... grunt. If you can have a program such as putty.exe authorized, that'd be an escape route. Even without putty.exe, IIRC, telnet.exe comes standard with MS-Windows. Otherwise, there are ssh-enabled java terminal emulators running in web browsers... http://www.javassh.org/ > I'm so extremely sorry to have wasted everyone's time with > all this ranting... though evidently not sorry enough to > rethink sending it. That's ok, to share the feeling. ;-) > Anyway, long live Emacs lisp. > > Footnotes: > [1] Not that I have anything against the mouse or GUIs; on > the contrary I think they can be very useful. I just don't > think they are a good substitute for those things... for > which they are not a good substitute... like, er, most user > input, for instance. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ "I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth contest. They will not concern us again." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? 2008-08-22 1:23 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon @ 2008-08-22 3:15 ` stan 2008-08-22 13:06 ` Ken Goldman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: stan @ 2008-08-22 3:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: > Evans Winner <thorne@timbral.net> writes: > >> Michael Ekstrand <michael@elehack.net> writes: < well done rant snipped> >> I'm on a bit of a rampage of late because I just took a new >> sysadmin job and found that the IT department policies are >> so absurdly strict that I can't even install my choice of >> text editors on the PC there. There is a short (very short) >> list of allowed software (almost all of it proprietary, of >> course) and I'm just stuck with it. There I am running a >> million-dollar system running (nee) OS/400 and on the front >> end I'm stuck with Windows and notepad.exe. Point... >> grunt... point... grunt. > > If you can have a program such as putty.exe authorized, that'd be an > escape route. Even without putty.exe, IIRC, telnet.exe comes standard > with MS-Windows. Otherwise, there are ssh-enabled java terminal > emulators running in web browsers... http://www.javassh.org/ Unfortunately in many cases IT departments are unwilling or incapable of distinguishing between people who search for the "any" key and kernel hackers. Consequently the level of nonesense can and does achieve scary levels. >> I'm so extremely sorry to have wasted everyone's time with >> all this ranting... though evidently not sorry enough to >> rethink sending it. > > That's ok, to share the feeling. ;-) I'll second the OK, and point out this rant has more meat than many posts on usenet. I don't know if it will help but there are entire newgroups that never rise to the level of your article. A mouse does have uses. Mine has a light on it that's just about perfect when stuff falls behind the monitor. John Dvorak once repeated a story about a service call from a woman having problems with her computer. She couldn't get it to start. As the story goes, after awhile the tech discovered the woman stepping on the mouse just like she did with the pedal on her sewing machine but the computer just wouldn't start. >> Anyway, long live Emacs lisp. >> >> Footnotes: >> [1] Not that I have anything against the mouse or GUIs; on >> the contrary I think they can be very useful. I just don't >> think they are a good substitute for those things... for >> which they are not a good substitute... like, er, most user >> input, for instance. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? 2008-08-22 3:15 ` stan @ 2008-08-22 13:06 ` Ken Goldman 2008-08-23 12:05 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado 2008-08-23 16:32 ` stan 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Ken Goldman @ 2008-08-22 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs stan wrote: > > ... after awhile the tech discovered the woman stepping on the > mouse just like she did with the pedal on her sewing machine but the > computer just wouldn't start. Circling back to emacs, I can remember emacs users proposing a keyboard with foot pedals for the control and alt keys. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? 2008-08-22 13:06 ` Ken Goldman @ 2008-08-23 12:05 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado 2008-08-23 13:53 ` Drew Adams 2008-08-23 16:32 ` stan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Glauber Alex Dias Prado @ 2008-08-23 12:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ken Goldman; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Ken Goldman <kgold@watson.ibm.com> writes: > stan wrote: >> >> ... after awhile the tech discovered the woman stepping on the >> mouse just like she did with the pedal on her sewing machine but the >> computer just wouldn't start. > > Circling back to emacs, I can remember emacs users proposing a keyboard > with foot pedals for the control and alt keys. There is emacs-versor which is a specialized navigating mode done with this setup in mind, it also allows for joystick ediditing(somewhat experimental at the moment, but improving) cheers, glauber. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* RE: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? 2008-08-23 12:05 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado @ 2008-08-23 13:53 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2008-08-23 13:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Glauber Alex Dias Prado', 'Ken Goldman'; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs > > Circling back to emacs, I can remember emacs users > > proposing a keyboard with foot pedals for the control and alt keys. > There is emacs-versor which is a specialized navigating mode done with > this setup in mind, it also allows for joystick ediditing(somewhat > experimental at the moment, but improving) http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/EmacsVersor ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? 2008-08-22 13:06 ` Ken Goldman 2008-08-23 12:05 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado @ 2008-08-23 16:32 ` stan 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: stan @ 2008-08-23 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Ken Goldman wrote: > stan wrote: >> >> ... after awhile the tech discovered the woman stepping on the >> mouse just like she did with the pedal on her sewing machine but the >> computer just wouldn't start. > > Circling back to emacs, I can remember emacs users proposing a keyboard > with foot pedals for the control and alt keys. I like it. Maybe we could also get a button you hit with your forehead for parentheses. That way I'd probably get better at touch typing the things. I'm sure my current parentheses skill and lisp are one day going to result in nasal demons. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: what is the important uses of emacs lisp? 2008-08-21 23:01 ` Evans Winner 2008-08-22 1:23 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon @ 2008-09-11 17:53 ` Oleksandr Gavenko 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Oleksandr Gavenko @ 2008-09-11 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Evans Winner wrote: > > I'm on a bit of a rampage of late because I just took a new > sysadmin job and found that the IT department policies are > so absurdly strict that I can't even install my choice of > text editors on the PC there. There is a short (very short) > list of allowed software (almost all of it proprietary, of > course) and I'm just stuck with it. There I am running a > million-dollar system running (nee) OS/400 and on the front > end I'm stuck with Windows and notepad.exe. Point... > grunt... point... grunt. Man. I regret you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* what is the important uses of emacs lisp? @ 2008-08-21 13:31 xiaopeng hu 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: xiaopeng hu @ 2008-08-21 13:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7 bytes --] thanks [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 32 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-09-11 17:53 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <mailman.17236.1219325516.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2008-08-21 14:14 ` what is the important uses of emacs lisp? Michael Ekstrand [not found] ` <mailman.17242.1219328080.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2008-08-21 23:01 ` Evans Winner 2008-08-22 1:23 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon 2008-08-22 3:15 ` stan 2008-08-22 13:06 ` Ken Goldman 2008-08-23 12:05 ` Glauber Alex Dias Prado 2008-08-23 13:53 ` Drew Adams 2008-08-23 16:32 ` stan 2008-09-11 17:53 ` Oleksandr Gavenko 2008-08-21 13:31 xiaopeng hu
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