Re: Need help for oh-my-emacs.

Re: Need help for oh-my-emacs.

[Emanuel Berg]

Xiao Hanyu <xiaohanyu1988@gmail.com> writes:

> Recently, I'm doing a project
> https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs, which aims
> to be a
> oh-my-zsh(https://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh)
> for Emacs world.

I don't get any of this, what did you do?!

A tool to share/synchronize configuration?

Isn't there the EmacsWiki for that?

People just need to share their Elisp, that's the bottom
line. But people don't like that. That's cheating, they
think. The proper way is to share references to the
documentation. Ha ha ha! It is funny because it is
true. Or "sad", I should say.

Sorry, can you just describe the project, more in terms
of your idea, its goal, etc., and perhaps share some
screenshots, rather than in terms of the scope of the
project, etc.?

> 1. A literate way to keep code and documentation
> synced, thus get rid of outdated elisp code snippets
> from google or emacs blogs.  2. Use el-get to manager
> packages, no need to manage load-path and info doc
> 3. Self adapted, only install necessary packages when
> it satisfies the prerequisites.

OK, so it is a *package manager*, like aptitude or
apt-get for Debian and the like? Is that really better
than to just share Elisp?

> 4. better default settings, lots of eye candy.

Well... people have different taste. I like Emacs to
look like a CRT, others like it to look like a book from
some French fashion publisher... Perhaps we should leave
that to each, as we will never reach a conclusion, and
if we try, there will only be bad blood. (This is about
Emacs. Maybe you referred you your tool? Is that a
standalone tool or some Emacs mode by the way?)

> 3. develop new modules for languages that I have no
> idea of, such as erlang/haskell.

I did work in both of those languages and there are
Emacs modes for them. Why would you want new modules?

> When things goes well, I'll try to make an official
> emacs distribution for out-of-box use, see
> https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs/issues/16.

OK, I hate to be a jerk, but

1. What problems did you experience with the
"distribution" of Emacs that you used, prior to
undertaking this project?

and

2. What made you think that the solution was in a *new*
distribution, rather than solving the problem *where you
found it*?

> The current oh-my-emacs contains 1. about 900 lines of
> emacs lisp code 2. about 3500 lines of documentation.
> 3. about 50 powerful el-get packages.

In three months, you seemed to have worked very, very
hard on this project. I hope (no irony) you have good
answers to my questions, but even if you don't, no one
can take away your work habits and dedication.

PS. Again, *screenshots* would clarify a lot! DS.

-- 
Emanuel Berg, programmer-for-rent. CV, projects, etc at uXu
underground experts united:  http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Need help for oh-my-emacs.

[xiaohanyu1988]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:14:29 AM UTC+8, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Xiao Hanyu <xiaohanyu1988@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> 
> 
> > Recently, I'm doing a project
> 
> > https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs, which aims
> 
> > to be a
> 
> > oh-my-zsh(https://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh)
> 
> > for Emacs world.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get any of this, what did you do?!
> 
> 
> 
> A tool to share/synchronize configuration?
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't there the EmacsWiki for that?
> 
> 
> 
> People just need to share their Elisp, that's the bottom
> 
> line. But people don't like that. That's cheating, they
> 
> think. The proper way is to share references to the
> 
> documentation. Ha ha ha! It is funny because it is
> 
> true. Or "sad", I should say.
> 
> 

To tell the truth, I think some code snippets from emacswiki or blogs or google is not portable and newbie-friendly. Various elisp code from the web conflicts with each other. 
> 
> Sorry, can you just describe the project, more in terms
> 
> of your idea, its goal, etc., and perhaps share some
> 
> screenshots, rather than in terms of the scope of the
> 
> project, etc.?
> 
> 

Hi, I've already write lots of docs about what this project is and its goal, please try to read its readme file: https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs/blob/master/README.org .

> 
> > 1. A literate way to keep code and documentation
> 
> > synced, thus get rid of outdated elisp code snippets
> 
> > from google or emacs blogs.  2. Use el-get to manager
> 
> > packages, no need to manage load-path and info doc
> 
> > 3. Self adapted, only install necessary packages when
> 
> > it satisfies the prerequisites.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so it is a *package manager*, like aptitude or
> 
> apt-get for Debian and the like? Is that really better
> 
> than to just share Elisp?
> 
> 
Definitely sure, a package manager is much more better than sharing code in emacswiki or some other places. Here's some references: https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs/blob/master/ome.org#package-management .

> 
> > 4. better default settings, lots of eye candy.
> 
> 
> 
> Well... people have different taste. I like Emacs to
> 
> look like a CRT, others like it to look like a book from
> 
> some French fashion publisher... Perhaps we should leave
> 
> that to each, as we will never reach a conclusion, and
> 
> if we try, there will only be bad blood. (This is about
> 
> Emacs. Maybe you referred you your tool? Is that a
> 
> standalone tool or some Emacs mode by the way?)
> 
> 

I know that, so I just provide modules, you can make your own choices.

> 
> > 3. develop new modules for languages that I have no
> 
> > idea of, such as erlang/haskell.
> 
> 
> 
> I did work in both of those languages and there are
> 
> Emacs modes for them. Why would you want new modules?
> 
> 

Emacs already has lots of builtin mode, so why there comes lots of third-party packages such as js2-mode, elpy, SLIME, nrepl? Since the builtin mode is not powerful, we need third party packages.

> 
> > When things goes well, I'll try to make an official
> 
> > emacs distribution for out-of-box use, see
> 
> > https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs/issues/16.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I hate to be a jerk, but
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What problems did you experience with the
> 
> "distribution" of Emacs that you used, prior to
> 
> undertaking this project?
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 
> 2. What made you think that the solution was in a *new*
> 
> distribution, rather than solving the problem *where you
> 
> found it*?
> 
> 

Nobody want to work with plain emacs. oh-my-emacs just provide a basic point. Just like no body want to work with plain linux kernel, so there comes Ubuntu/Gentoo/Archlinux etc. 

> 
> > The current oh-my-emacs contains 1. about 900 lines of
> 
> > emacs lisp code 2. about 3500 lines of documentation.
> 
> > 3. about 50 powerful el-get packages.
> 
> 
> 
> In three months, you seemed to have worked very, very
> 
> hard on this project. I hope (no irony) you have good
> 
> answers to my questions, but even if you don't, no one
> 
> can take away your work habits and dedication.
> 
> 
> 
> PS. Again, *screenshots* would clarify a lot! DS.
> 
> 
Some screenshots: http://www.douban.com/photos/album/117065634/.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Emanuel Berg, programmer-for-rent. CV, projects, etc at uXu
> 
> underground experts united:  http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Need help for oh-my-emacs.

[Emanuel Berg]

xiaohanyu1988@gmail.com writes:

> To tell the truth, I think some code snippets from
> emacswiki or blogs or google is not portable and
> newbie-friendly. Various elisp code from the web
> conflicts with each other.

Yeah? I never had any Elisp conflicting, how do you
mean? They are just a bunch of defuns...

> Definitely sure, a package manager is much more better
> than sharing code in emacswiki or some other places.

For a Linux distribution, with lots of dependencies,
binaries, and the need to organize everything in a file
system (to provide a uniform way to access manpages,
etc. etc.), yes. For Elisp... I can't say I ever
experienced a need for conflict resolution and the
like. (But it is an interesting thought.)

> Emacs already has lots of builtin mode, so why there
> comes lots of third-party packages such as js2-mode,
> elpy, SLIME, nrepl? Since the builtin mode is not
> powerful, we need third party packages.

I'm unfamiliar with those packages. But I did install
something - some LaTeX extension, I think. But I did
that with aptitude exactly as any other software on my
system so perhaps work should be done to followup that
example?  People are already so used to aptitude so if
you could get the surplus Emacs stuff that way that
would be much better than a new tool, I think.

> Nobody want to work with plain emacs.

?

> oh-my-emacs just provide a basic point. Just like no
> body want to work with plain linux kernel, so there
> comes Ubuntu/Gentoo/Archlinux etc.

Yeah, but Linux is a *kernel* - there is nothing to
*work* with, it is a process that runs all the time so
you can run *other* processes without resource races,
starvation, etc., and *those* processes are the software
in execution, that you get from the Linux distributions
you mention. Which are in fact not always "Linux" but
can be software from GNU (isn't X is from MIT?) or
whatever. Emacs is a great interface to the computer but
it is not an OS! I don't understand that metaphor at
all.

> Some screenshots: http://www.douban.com/photos/album/117065634/

Get back to you...

-- 
Emanuel Berg, programmer-for-rent. CV, projects, etc at uXu
underground experts united:  http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Need help for oh-my-emacs.

[Emanuel Berg]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Some screenshots ...
>
> Get back to you...

OK, I still don't get the basic idea. To have Emacs
fragmented like the Linux distributions is a terrible,
horrible thought. Total fragmentation which amounts to a
change of desktop background color...

To have one zillion hours of overhead migrating files,
setting up paths, to have a system that is 99% the same,
... in order to fix a problem that you could have done
with one line in .emacs or .zshrc or .Xresources - the
*same* line, by the way, for all those silly distros! It
just doesn't make any sense to me.

But let's not argue. Keep it up. I would.

-- 
Emanuel Berg, programmer-for-rent. CV, projects, etc at uXu
underground experts united:  http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Need help for oh-my-emacs.

[xiaohanyu1988]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:35:36 AM UTC+8, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:
> 
> 
> 
> > Some screenshots ...
> 
> >
> 
> > Get back to you...
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I still don't get the basic idea. To have Emacs
> 
> fragmented like the Linux distributions is a terrible,
> 
> horrible thought. Total fragmentation which amounts to a
> 
> change of desktop background color...
> 
> 
> 
> To have one zillion hours of overhead migrating files,
> 
> setting up paths, to have a system that is 99% the same,
> 
> ... in order to fix a problem that you could have done
> 
> with one line in .emacs or .zshrc or .Xresources - the
> 
> *same* line, by the way, for all those silly distros! It
> 
> just doesn't make any sense to me.
> 
> 
> 
> But let's not argue. Keep it up. I would.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Emanuel Berg, programmer-for-rent. CV, projects, etc at uXu
> 
> underground experts united:  http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Ah, thanks. 

Do you know or hear about projects like https://github.com/bbatsov/prelude or https://github.com/eschulte/emacs24-starter-kit, or something similar for vim(http://vim.spf13.com/)? Or you write your own .emacs config from the bottom up line by line?

How do you think about those projects?

Re: Need help for oh-my-emacs.

[Emanuel Berg]

xiaohanyu1988@gmail.com writes:

> Do you know or hear about projects like
> https://github.com/bbatsov/prelude or
> https://github.com/eschulte/emacs24-starter-kit, or
> something similar for vim(http://vim.spf13.com/)?
> How do you think about those projects?

No, never heard of! Must check them out.

> Or you write your own .emacs config from the bottom up
> line by line?

I just posted (10 seconds ago) a brand new URL to answer
that question, what timing!

Again: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/emacs.html

I thought that was what everyone did... Perhaps not with
as much frenzy, but as for the method.

-- 
Emanuel Berg, programmer-for-rent. CV, projects, etc at uXu
underground experts united:  http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Need help for oh-my-emacs.

[Xiao Hanyu]

Hi, emacsers:

Recently, I'm doing a project https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs,
which aims to be a oh-my-zsh(https://github.com/robbyrussell/oh-my-zsh) for
Emacs world.

I've spent about 3 months, and finished some basic works such as:
1. A literate way to keep code and documentation synced, thus get rid of
outdated elisp code snippets from google or emacs blogs.
2. Use el-get to manager packages, no need to manage load-path and info doc
3. Self adapted, only install necessary packages when it satisfies the
prerequisites.
4. better default settings, lots of eye candy.
5. completion every, helm and auto-complete support, I even write a
auto-complete backend(https://github.com/xiaohanyu/ac-geiser) for
geiser(Scheme programming)
6. Modular, load necessary modules when you really need it.

I also got some useful feedback from reddit(
http://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1mfnlo/ohmyemacs_yet_another_starter_kit_for_emacs_users/),
github(https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs/issues?state=open).

I came here asking for help since I do know that one person can not finish
all the jobs. I need some help for:
1. testing under Mac OS X environment.
2. Trying to debug some weird problems.
3. develop new modules for languages that I have no idea of, such as
erlang/haskell.

When things goes well, I'll try to make an official emacs distribution for
out-of-box use, see https://github.com/xiaohanyu/oh-my-emacs/issues/16.

The current oh-my-emacs contains
1. about 900 lines of emacs lisp code
2. about 3500 lines of documentation.
3. about 50 powerful el-get packages.

All of the above results in a 30MB tarball, you download it, and you get a
full-blown emacs os.

Wait for your response.

Sincerely.

-- 

Best regards

Hanyu Xiao ^_^ 肖晗宇