From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Hard to switch from vi Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:36:50 +0200 Message-ID: <453BC852.4070408@student.lu.se> References: <45299CB0.5090003@speakeasy.net> <4529A0E4.60403@charter.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1161545845 10563 80.91.229.2 (22 Oct 2006 19:37:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:37:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 22 21:37:22 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbj8J-0007ot-HY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:37:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbj8J-0007uO-2v for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:37:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbj81-0007om-RN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:37:01 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbj7w-0007iM-B2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:37:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gbj7w-0007hu-4n for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:36:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [80.76.149.213] (helo=ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1Gbj7v-0001uO-UQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:36:56 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-249-218-244.bredband.comhem.se ([83.249.218.244]:60675 helo=[192.168.123.121]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gbj7s-0006gb-7M; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:36:52 +0200 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) Original-To: don provan In-Reply-To: X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1Gbj7s-0006gb-7M. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1Gbj7s-0006gb-7M 077f3bcc2fe2323f71f086ba3bf106c7 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:38177 Archived-At: don provan wrote: > Wen Weng writes: > > >> ken wrote: >> >>> First, I don't know of any comparison of the number of keystrokes. >>> >> Well, that's just my experience so far after one week of using emacs. >> > > Could you elaborate? I can't think of any serious inefficiencies in > emacs vs. vi, so I'm wondering if something else is going on. Perhaps > you're mentally ascribing two key strokes to control-f because you > have to push two keys and you aren't used to that, Well, I have to push two keys to type control-f. Don't you? (Whether this is important or not is another thing.) > > >>> Secondly, other things are much more important. >>> >> Actually, the number of keystrokes is number one importance to me and >> to a lot of people, I guess. >> > > Well, I actually agree with others that there are many more important > issues, but the one that drives me crazy about vi actually winds up > causing more keystrokes in vi: the modalism. It seems like every vi > session I end up spending the majority of keystrokes cleaning up text > executed as commands because I thought I was in text-enter mode or > commands entered as text because I thought I was in command-mode. Beginning to use vi keys are rather tough. But once you are used to them they can be very good. I know since they are good for me ;-) And they are available in Emacs. Viper in the next release of Emacs is very good.